If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

Sunset Steam Express. Selected Tuesdays, July/August 2022 (Windsor trips cancelled)

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by Paul.Uni, Oct 20, 2021.

  1. 30567

    30567 Part of the furniture Friend

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2012
    Messages:
    5,611
    Likes Received:
    3,512
    If that's the exam qn, my 2022 answer is--- the 25 or so WCR trains to Carlisle from various places are very likely to be diesel free, fire risk and leaf fall aside. So too the Shakespeares and of course the Jacobite.

    The GB spring tour is priced to include separate diesel paths wherever practicable.

    There is Belmond for the deep pocketed.

    There are other examples like Worcester and hopefully Somerset and Dorset.

    Everything else--don't bet the farm!

    So, not quite over and enjoy it while you can. It will be interesting to see the Tornado programme when it is back in one piece. Also the Scarboroughs ; that could be a good run but no RTT yet, we will see what they do on Thursday.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2022
    John Petley and Big Al like this.
  2. TheModster

    TheModster Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2019
    Messages:
    751
    Likes Received:
    1,238
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    London
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    The Windsors are completely gone from the website, with the home page saying they will resume in 2023. Obviously yesterday's events of them not running have met the whole season. Sunsets are still on the website but as you say, state to be sold out.
     
  3. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    21,072
    Likes Received:
    20,779
    Location:
    1016
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    That's just as I see it. And the other thing that's gone is the one-off itinerary on an obscure but interesting route. I expect that the RTC has now given up trying to turn right after leaving Newcastle northbound, coming back again at Morpeth.
     
  4. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    Messages:
    8,069
    Likes Received:
    5,165
    A fair number of tours do still run with pure steam. The trouble is that very often you don't know for sure in advance whether you will get pure steam or not or, even worse, you're expecting pure steam and a diesel is added at the last minute. For some people those are total deal breakers, for some they are annoying but tolerable, for some they don't really matter much.

    We should perhaps be asking ourselves what exactly we wish to get out of a steam-hauled railtour. If it is the sight and sound of the loco, a diesel on the back makes no difference if it is there only for shunting at the destination and/or electric heating, and not much difference if it only provides a shove occasionally. On the other hand aircon coaches make a big difference.

    If we're interested in locomotive performance, what exactly the diesel does matters a lot, but with or without a diesel there are many other factors at play, notably the state of the rail, the skill of the crew (both driver and fireman) and the quality of the coal.
     
    banana patch, 26D_M and 5944 like this.
  5. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    May 12, 2006
    Messages:
    18,046
    Likes Received:
    15,736
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cumbria
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I think there is small caveat with the Carlisle trains as it seems to depend how busy it is on the day with other excursion traffic. WCR/NR seem pretty cool with doing a no diesel turn around as long as the station is not clogged up with other tours doing the same.
     
    MellishR likes this.
  6. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2015
    Messages:
    6,078
    Likes Received:
    4,893
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Swanage
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Or on some days ECML diversions as well. The day of the ascent of Shap by Galatea with Britannia following both tours never accessed Citadel as it was a diversion day. A very long day on the CCE from and to Euston without being able to get off anywhere, although diesel free of course.
     
  7. Deepgreen

    Deepgreen Well-Known Member Friend

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2010
    Messages:
    1,792
    Likes Received:
    1,144
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Early retirement! (Ex-Business Improvement, LU).
    Location:
    Betchworth, Surrey
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I hope you're right, and I freely admit to having done no analysis. In the case of the 'Sunset Steam Express' the diesel could be left at Battersea but is taken for the whole journey - does that come under the heading of operational reasons or insurance? At least last night's was in 1960s green, but that was in stark contrast to the IC mk3s! Not complaining, just noting. My video link is here:
     
    alastair and Crawley Ben like this.
  8. Deepgreen

    Deepgreen Well-Known Member Friend

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2010
    Messages:
    1,792
    Likes Received:
    1,144
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Early retirement! (Ex-Business Improvement, LU).
    Location:
    Betchworth, Surrey
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I was talking to someone yesterday evening who thinks that the Windsor runs are suffering owing to there being no/not enough LSL drivers who sign the route. Presumably driver route learning this year is supposed to allow 2023 resumption, but who knows?
     
  9. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2005
    Messages:
    9,635
    Likes Received:
    8,303
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Alderan !
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    you would have thought all of that would have been taken into consideration before the deal was struck . Nothing hits business harder than having to let down booked customers . For the sake of three months (and I appreciate subject to no other factors) why would you not have stuck with your existing TOC

    Irrespective of the ins and outs of the sale the customers , the fare paying passengers lose out . I also don't buy the argument that the public are less concerned on stock . I think many now , even if not enthusiasts are buying the experience and know what feels old and what they can travel on the chilterns on a daily basis
     
    MellishR likes this.
  10. torgormaig

    torgormaig Part of the furniture Friend

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2007
    Messages:
    4,445
    Likes Received:
    6,547
    In this instance there is a very simple operational reason for the presence of the diesel. Last I heard Black 5s are not fitted with ETS (electrical train supply) which is quite handy to have if you have a train consisting of air-con coaches.

    Peter
     
    green five, MellishR, RalphW and 4 others like this.
  11. Deepgreen

    Deepgreen Well-Known Member Friend

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2010
    Messages:
    1,792
    Likes Received:
    1,144
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Early retirement! (Ex-Business Improvement, LU).
    Location:
    Betchworth, Surrey
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Great point which I had completely overlooked! Pesky air-con! Railway Herald tells me that the 47 and ECS are back at Crewe with nothing showing coming down again next week. On the off-chance that RH is correct, does this mean a different rake next week?
     
  12. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2015
    Messages:
    6,078
    Likes Received:
    4,893
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Swanage
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    See upthread thy are cancelled for the rest of the year.
     
  13. TheModster

    TheModster Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2019
    Messages:
    751
    Likes Received:
    1,238
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    London
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Is that the Sunsets as well? They're still on the website but showing fully booked, while the Windsors are completely gone and the homepage says it resumes in 2023.
     
  14. Deepgreen

    Deepgreen Well-Known Member Friend

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2010
    Messages:
    1,792
    Likes Received:
    1,144
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Early retirement! (Ex-Business Improvement, LU).
    Location:
    Betchworth, Surrey
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I thought that was just the Windsor runs. Are the SSEs also now gone?
     
  15. D1002

    D1002 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2011
    Messages:
    8,659
    Likes Received:
    6,415
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Enfield
    The SSEs are still there, but are all showing fully booked.
     
  16. Deepgreen

    Deepgreen Well-Known Member Friend

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2010
    Messages:
    1,792
    Likes Received:
    1,144
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Early retirement! (Ex-Business Improvement, LU).
    Location:
    Betchworth, Surrey
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Quite, therefore my point/question was, is it expected that a different rake will appear next week, as the mk3s are back at Crewe (or are they still down south) and there is no move shown to bring them back again?
     
  17. TheModster

    TheModster Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2019
    Messages:
    751
    Likes Received:
    1,238
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    London
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    It's all getting rather confusing what's going on. The Windsors are indeed all gone, homepage says they will resume in 2023. The Sunsets are still there, but showing as fully booked, and the home page says this years season resumes on Tuesday 12 July. Not this coming Tuesday on the 5th

    Not much has been said from Steam Dreams about all this, though their first point of contact should be their passengers, and I'm guessing they've at least contacted passengers who were on any of the remaining Windsors (anyone on an upcoming Sunset run had an update?), and with no timings on RTT, which would be indentical to the previous run, alongside the 'going over to LSL' scenario, the big question is have they bitten off more than they can chew?

    What I say next is pure speculation and nothing more than rumours, but apparently LSL didn't approve of the Windsors (not taking enough passengers), and there's also the message @Deepgreen said futher up that LSL don't have enough drivers who sign the route (guessing the option to hire DB Crews wasn't on the table either). On top of that apparently the 'complaints' from the general passengers (not just enthusiasts who want something authentic to travel in behind steam) about the Mark 3's have made them reconsider running the Sunset runs
     
  18. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2015
    Messages:
    6,078
    Likes Received:
    4,893
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Swanage
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    From a different forum this was the email issued yesterday apparently.

    “ We do apologise for the disappointment this decision will cause. Unfortunately, it has not been possible to secure our nostalgic heritage carriages for the date of your trip and instead we would only be able to offer you a more modern 1970’s Intercity set which we feel very strongly would not provide you with the experience you were expecting and the on board atmosphere we pride our ourselves on delivering.

    We appreciate this decision will be of huge disappointment to you but would like to reassure you this is only for the short term and we will be returning to our vintage carriages next season.“

    MC

    Who has "nostalgic heritage carriages" kicking around as Saphos still not to seem to have a full Mk1 set.
     
  19. Paul42

    Paul42 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
    Messages:
    5,922
    Likes Received:
    3,831
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    East Grinstead
    Rivera who it was stated somewhere might be selling them later this year, currently at Eastleigh. From those listed on the
    Railway Heritage database owned by LSL at Crewe and Eastleigh ( have they got any elsewhere ?)they are lacking TSO's
     
  20. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    21,072
    Likes Received:
    20,779
    Location:
    1016
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I'm not certain that any Riviera stock is at Eastleigh. Burton maybe.
     

Share This Page