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7027 Thornbury Castle

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by svrhunt, Jan 18, 2015.

  1. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    I think most of us would like to know the answers to those questions, but at present we're still in the dark.
     
  2. 240P15

    240P15 Well-Known Member

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    Signed up to the "Help save 7027 Thornbury Castle campaign" today and donated a little lump of money to them:)

    Knut
     
  3. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    But not so many have involved the wilful destruction of a loco, particularly one under restoration to working order. I get that you want to see a 4700 but go do it the proper way a la A1, P2, B17 etc.
     
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  4. GWRman

    GWRman New Member

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    There's no fundraiser yet AFAIK. Are you sure you didn't give your money to change.org?
     
  5. torgormaig

    torgormaig Part of the furniture Friend

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    As a mildly disinterested spectator to this thread, this post jumped out at me. Maybe the restoration of 7027 "is for the birds" but.......... the plans for constructing the 4709 loco is from a completely different planet. Just read all the fantasy blurb about it. Its been on going for years and made little progress during that time apart from wasting money on changing their mind over how to go about it. Then they talk about it going main line when finished.......as if? What on earth use will a small wheeled 2-8-0 be on a main line in say 2030, let alone in the more realistic time frame of 2040.

    The way I see it there is a very slight possibility that 7027 could be rebuilt by the end of the decade. On the other hand I see no chance for 4709 if it is to be organised by the fantasists who seem to be at the centre of this row. So why sacrifice a potentially good loco for one that has its origins in cloud cuckoo land.

    Peter
     
  6. The Green Howards

    The Green Howards Nat Pres stalwart

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    That's the trouble with GWR "pick-and-mix" locomotives; they lend themselves too readily to this sort of nonsense.
     
  7. The Green Howards

    The Green Howards Nat Pres stalwart

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    I can answer that - none.

    Where's the ETCS kit going to fit?

    Over on the newsgroup uk.railway many years ago there were some posters who were firmly of the belief that people who wanted to play with their 12":foot toys should not be allowed anywhere near the big railway as any failure of these superannuated machines would cause too many problems to the grown-ups and consequently, they should be banished to running on the numerous "glorified sidings" dotted around the country where they could play trains to their hearts' content.
     
  8. Mr Valentine

    Mr Valentine Member

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    No one knows. There has been no official statement on precise ownership. The owner could be the Great Western Society, Great Western Preservations, or A.N. other.
    See above. The 4709 group have stated that they will use the boiler on the 47xx, and use the bottom end to make a Star. They have also stated that they will not sell the engine.
    Yes.
     
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  9. Mr Valentine

    Mr Valentine Member

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    Spare a thought for the good people of Didcot, who've had to put up with seeing this drivel spread all over the railway press for years, if not decades. With most of it coming from the head of the Society, who was unelected and basically immovable from office, I cannot tell you how frustrating and demoralising it has been to see everyone at Didcot collectively, and repeatedly painted as muppets, because of the actions of a small group of naïve fantasists.

    The number of times I've been with people from other railways, and felt compelled to explain the situation and distance myself from the madness is just ridiculous. I learnt long ago that when visiting other railways, it was just easier to keep my association with Didcot a secret, and I'm by no means the only person who takes this approach. :(
     
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  10. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    I do not disagree, except perhaps about "destruction ". It was common enough in the days of the Big Four (and before) for a locomotive works to send out a loco that was nominally one that had gone in but including old parts from one or more other locos as well as new parts, and possibly very few parts from the nominal original. I understand that the rebuilt Royal Scots, for instance, had more replaced major parts than originals but does anyone claim that the originals were destroyed? The 4700 and Star proposals seem to me no different in principle, but I have previously stated (in post #1646) my opinion that the boiler and frames of Thornbury Castle are poor choices for those projects.
     
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  11. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    The 4700 won’t even be a proper pick and mix loco once if it gets a no.8 boiler in lieu of a no.7.
     
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  12. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    If 4709 is eventually completed and if it then goes on the main line, will fitting the ETCS kit be any more difficult that for any other main line steam loco?
     
  13. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    We are not talking about the days of the “Big Four” etc., we are talking about the preservation era. In any case, please direct me to the bit where Swindon Works dismantled a Castle to create a 4700 with a no.8 boiler and modified the redundant frames to create a Star. As for “destruction,” IMO that’s exactly what it is. 7027 will cease to exist and its components used in two projects that may well never come to fruition.
     
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  14. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    Working locos as assets and historical assets (no longer being built or run in revenue earning service) are very different things and need to be treated differently.
     
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  15. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Could be positive, but in light of what's happened and been said about the 47xx group they could really do with full transparency stating who they are etc etc.

    Sent from my SM-A125F using Tapatalk
     
  16. Maunsell man

    Maunsell man Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, is it only one opinion allowed here? Not getting a kick out of anything, just stating the obvious. Only thing that will help 7027 is somebody waving a cheque for a million quid. A load of internet keyboard warriors hand wringing is just that. GWS managment are right. Its a social media storm that will pass
     
  17. class8mikado

    class8mikado Part of the furniture

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    mmm
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2022
  18. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    And like many storms, will leave collateral damage in it's wake. Damage that may just include having to address difficult questions about how they've exercised their duties to GWS as a whole - if there is real damage, I'd be interested in how they'd respond to hard questions about their fiduciary duties.

    The core problem here is neither the prospective loss of 7027 nor the 4709 project (my views aren't that far from your's), but the damage to trust in an organisation whose remit goes far beyond recreation of extinct locomotive classes.
     
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  19. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    Thing is this, Any fall out will effect Didcot railway centre, can they actually survive if people start to not go there, they do not even own the site, it's leased, from NR, they actually are on very shaky, foundations, and if there is any fall out either due to people voting with their legs, or from legal matters resulting from how a group can use the finances of the GWS but at the same time not be part of it,
     
  20. class8mikado

    class8mikado Part of the furniture

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    well West coast managed to find work for an even smaller wheeled 2-8-0 though I wonder if it will ever go mainline again, a 47xxx will do more than a Black 5 and be passed for the same speed, and these are continuously in use, but to me any Gwr loco is a poor choice for main line for route availability reasons without modifications to suit. Personally I am surprised that 7027 hasn't been bought up as a spares loco before now because there are a lot of other Castles that aren't getting any youngerI
    Do not see a problem in borrowing a near as damm it the same boiler from one no hope project to use on one with at least some impetus, but if what is left of another Castle is so important and precious then 47xx should sell it on - an asking price of £0.5 million i.e the cost of a new No 7 boiler seems reasonable and then everyone is happy....
     

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