West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Something we're only going to see more of, hence my constant banging on about awareness of the issue .... and being seen to be doing something to clean up our act.

 

I'm not saying you're wrong Paul, but let's say you were the WSR GM, how would you shorten the WSR to make it more economically viable?
Presumably you either chop a section off the Minehead end, thus reducing the tourist/family day out market, or you chop off the Taunton end thus killing off incoming charters, stone contracts, etc. Not to mention the political issues with either option.

It's easy to say a line is too long, but much harder to find a way to shorten it!

 

Maybe its time for a few awkward truths and rather direct comparisons then with cruise ships, air travel, HGV infested motorways and other much more significant polluters. Heritage railway diesel power is still pretty much dire 1950s high pollution too.

The only really credible alternative is your bike, walk or stay at home!

 

People have been banging on about emissions long before people pretended to care about emissions.

 

in a cleft stick etc.

 

Your dammed if you do, and your Dammed if you don't, but it's an issue that won't go away, you neglect your PW at your own risk, and then play catch up later,
and of course, it has to be somehow paid for, at a time when its going to be a struggle to even earn enough to meet your operating costs anyway, and closing part of the line can only make matters harder, It's past mistakes, and policies come back to haunt the current some mistakes can be placed at their door, but others are historic, well before the current board came into being,

 

No, not wrong. It's just that its already been re-phrased slightly to say 'We want £1 million a year from now on.. Give us your money"
It's more succinct but a little less informative - just normal "management speak" for the WSR.

 

Given the information in @Robin Moira White 's post, it seems likely that, for two sections the extra weight does not exceed "what the line was built for" and in the remaining one, that has long been exceeded in its operation as a blue route. Only if the the problems with Black Monkey bridge and other structures date from the uprating and not before can you say that the line's downrating was caused by its earlier uprating exceeding what the infrastructure was built for. In addition, I repeat that, back in the C19th civil engineering was not an exact science so it is very likely that there was no design weight limit when the WSR was built, thus it can't be exceeded.

If you are returning the infrastructure to the status quo ante, then you are not upgrading and returning the infrastructure to the status quo ante is all that is required to return to "red" status, because "red" status is the status quo ante. Admittedly, if you are carrying out a repair, it makes sense to upgrade at the same time if that upgrade can be achieved at a small additional cost. e.g. it is much less expensive to install double glazing if you are replacing the windows anyway, but that's just sensible future-proofing.

The comparison is not between a very visible large loco and an equally visible small loco, but between a very visible steam loco and practically invisible civil engineering.

 

A situation which sadly seems to be spreading to other heritage railways.

 

Yes, but until there are enough 2MTs in preservation to run every service on every heritage railway and cover for locos being out of traffic for overhauls/maintenance/washouts etc, (and I don't think the 15 LMS/BR Tenders & Tanks we've still got with us can handle that on their own), railways will sometimes have to use other locos, won't they? Unless 2MTs are so fantastic that they can each be in 15 places at once...

 

With all this speculation and discussion and whataboutery in this thread - is anybody able to give some figures, even estimates, as to how much the different options are going to cost? So if, say Black Monkeys bridge needs repairing/replacing, how much will it cost to repair/replace it to 'Blue route' standard, and how much more to repair/replace it up to 'Red route' standard?

Because if not, I reckon people who are on 'Team Blue Route' may well be imagining the cost of the extra work would be a greater amount than those on 'Team Red Route' may be imaginging. If people are able to make an estimate of such a figure.

The point has been made that if additional cost of doing a bit more work to end up with a product with higher weight rating than it currently can take is not prohibitively expensive, it is potentially a sensible option to make. Not only does it enable the railway to be more flexible in which locos it hires in, but also, if the railway does still end up, for whatever reason, mainly operating 'Blue route' stock, it will take longer for the sturcture to deteriorate again to the point where the same repairs/replacement is required. (Assuming an appropriate programme of maintenance is carried out, which, by the sounds of things, is not necessarily an assumption that can be made in the case of the WSR)

 

No, it is exactly the right length, virtually identical to the distance by rail from Norton Fitzwarren Junction to Minehead.

Kind of you to say. I have known every blade of grass for over 40 years.

 

It rather makes one wonder why all those stupid CMEs in the past built locomotives in a range of shapes and sizes in the first place. If only they had been in the happy position of being able to benefit from your wisdom! Or could it be that your visions are coloured by too much exposure to a limited number of railways that are convenient outliers on the "one size fits all" spectrum.?

 

Noting comments about the recent AGM, was there any news to report about the line. Usually AGM's try to report good news, so I wondered if there were any updates that could be repeated here to find out what is happening.

 

I agree that there would have been none of this route colour scheme when the line was built - as I understand it the lines were simply engineered to perform the functions required. Lines to mines or quarries would be engineered with structures designed to take the expected higher loads while others (such as the Gwili [shameless plug ]) were mainly passenger and therefore not needing such robust structures. I cannot believe the railway builders would have been allowed to spend what would have been considered excessive amounts in constructing, for want of a better description, a 'strong' line where a 'medium strength' one would suffice. Was there any heavy duty traffic using the line? Looking at the OS one inch 1885 - 1900 map ( https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=12.0&lat=51.16187&lon=-3.34521&layers=1&b=1) I can't see anything like mines or quarries so I'd suggest the line may not have been built to bear the loading of heavy trains or express locomotives - but, at the end of the day, the only way to really tell is qualified surveys of all built lineside structures and maybe core samples of embankments etc. Anyone know if this has ever been done?
Anything else I'd suggest is purely guesswork.

 

What an odd comment. Only what remained in 1968 was there to be rescued but there were many more Ivatts than eventually survived. lMHO this was a big mistake which the price continues to be paid for.

 

My money’s on moving Lydeard closer to Minehead rather than the other way around…