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Does steam and diesel have a future?

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by 22A, Nov 8, 2021.

  1. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Sorry - you've lost me. You queried whether forests in Canada were feeding Drax, to which the answer is yes, in part.

    I'm fully on board that we need to dramatically reduce carbon emissions - but that means reducing carbon emissions; not pretending to do so. I don't think the set up at Drax is remotely sustainable in carbon reduction terms.

    Tom
     
  2. RAB3L

    RAB3L Member

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    To be fair to Drax, they (or they claim to) only use the wood waste from the local (to source) wood processing industry. However it still doesn't make ecological sense; they don't use sailing ships to transport the pellets! It's not economically sustainable either; in 2020 the company received an £832m subsidy from the government!

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59546281
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2022
  3. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    In that post, I was merely querying what to me was a reference to Canada with no context. Your subsequent mention of Drax merely threw me further.

    The only other mention I've made of Canada in a long time concerned sourcing uranium.

    Re Drax. For the record .... No argument whatever from me when it comes to shipping wood pellets across the Atlantic. Doesn't exactly tick the 'sustsinable' box, does.it?
     
  4. RAB3L

    RAB3L Member

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  5. Cartman

    Cartman Well-Known Member Account Suspended

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    And....if they didn't, they'd be very quickly out of a well paid job. And it would have to be the Guardian wouldn't it..it's one of their pet obsessions.

    My opinion is based on an increasing suspicion that this whole thing is becoming a gravy train which is being exaggerated to a ludicrous degree to justify the continuing existence of what I consider to have become an increasingly authoritarian cult
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2022
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  6. mdewell

    mdewell Well-Known Member Friend

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    There have been documentaries (don't ask me when exactly, or what channel) which certainly imply that Drax burns a lot of usable wood (i.e. not just waste from other wood based products).
     
  7. RAB3L

    RAB3L Member

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    They can only handle pellets at Drax; they don't manufacture pellets at Drax and pellets allow automated feed. The pellets are made in the USA (and anywhere they source from). It would not be economic to make pellets from solid wood, only from wood waste.
     
  8. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    Unfortunately, the evidence seems strong that there is a great deal of such waste coming from virgin forestry and not as a by product.

    Drax is an illustration of how good intentions combine with poor implementation to allow subsidy farming that undermines the purpose of the policy.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  9. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    You cannot be serious.

    It's November 6th and we have had the mildest October on record with almost every day in October in the UK being a record breaking day for temperature since records began. This year the UK has had more extremes of weather throughout the year than it did in the previous three years, some of which has caused significant structural damage to the national network, that we are still trying to shore up and fix.

    Climate change is real - it is here - and we as a country are completely unprepared for it. The railway is doing its best to prepare for the extremes of weather that we are 100% going to get in future, from flash flooding to temperature extremes and everything in-between.

    Arguing that climate change isn't real is the 21st Century Equivalent of Canute trying to hold back the tide. Except the tide comes in and drowns Canute, proclaiming it all to be fake news...:rolleyes:
     
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  10. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Oh for pete's sake. Have you actually bothered reading so much as the summary of the report presented ahead of COPS26? From where I'm standing, you're pitting hard verified science against an unsubstantiated opinion. Just about every point raised by every climate denier has been answered, evidence provided which goes unacknowledged.

    I've previously said (literlally in as many words) that there are always carpet baggers and con-men and yes, we all need to be alert to them. True too, there are always those with authoritarian tendencies who would, left unchecked, trample over the rights of all bar themselves .... when weren't there? What none of that does is to change the climate science and you, with all due respect, need to be alert to that.
     
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  11. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    There are none so deaf as those who won't hear.
     
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  12. guycarr360

    guycarr360 Part of the furniture

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    Regarding subsidy, as a golf club we bought into the whole scheme, as it made money for us, based on the cost of the pellets against oil or gas heating, buying a pellet boiler, and the ancillaries.
    Now, with the pellets being the most recent victim of "energy tax", by suppliers, the whole system is no longer economically viable, cost per tonne has tripled since covid.
    And the tariff is not going to change, next stop, with our new clubhouse, is a ground source heat pump, hopefully we wont get taxed on using our own land to heat buildings.
    And as you say, subsidy farming at its worst.....
     
  13. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    Speaking as someone considering investment in solar panels, I feel your pain even though I'm relieved that the policy is now more sensible.
     
  14. guycarr360

    guycarr360 Part of the furniture

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    Only item i would be careful with, is you are leasing the roof of your building, if you use a developer to do the install.
    They are very problematical if you decide to sell the house they are on.
    Best bet is to pay for it yourself (if possible), and use the install to improve your building value.
     
  15. RAB3L

    RAB3L Member

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    That wouldn't be his problem. The FIT payments ceased for new installations long ago. When it applied for new installations, the company installing solar panels on your roof would take the payments and give you the electricity. They would still be taking the payments. If you have such panels, any problem selling the house shouldn't be insuperable.
     
  16. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    With thanks to both, I can safely say that sale of the building will not be an issue - it has only changed hands once in the past millennium, and that not through sale.
     
  17. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Civil War, was it?

    (I’m just wondering quite what sort of a pile chez @35B is!)

    Tom
     
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  18. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    Clearly it wasn't a Monastery, otherwise, after Henry viii came knocking, his home would indeed be in a pile, :)
     
  19. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    Chez 35B is a very boring suburban developer's box (though I did quite like visiting GWR 4007 when my grandmother lived there for a while). Meanwhile, if you look closely at my note, I never suggested that it was a personal purchase.
     
  20. Cartman

    Cartman Well-Known Member Account Suspended

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