Lynton and Barnstaple - Operations and Development

Thanks @Jamessquared - is there a public Bluebell document setting out this approach, please?

 

Section 5 in this document is the main public document. Interestingly, it already defines how West Hoathly station would be presented even though it doesn’t yet exist.

https://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/soc/notices/ltp_oct2021.pdf

There is also a preservation standards manual.

Tom

 

But the VofR was about half the length of the L&B and started from the middle of a major resort.

 

We're walking a bit of a tightrope here. There's nothing from Tom, @Flying Phil, or @RailWest with which to take issue .... but .... it's hard to think of too many stations retaining a truly authentic 'wayside' feel, at least on SG lines. Some concession to harsh reality is almost inevitably bound to creep in. A toilet block here, volunteer accommodation there, not to mention the odd large carriage shed or two (and never before time either!).

My own feeling is we accept the unavoidable, however bitter a pill that can be to swallow, merely doing our best to incorporate necessary changes sympathetically and be upfront and honest in how we describe the result. "Retains much of the bucolic charm of a 1930's country station" is going to be a hard sell with a noisy and none too fragrant diesel maintenance depot where a couple of goods sidings once rotted away quietly under the long grass.

 

This is an interesting discussion and shows how railway preservation has changed over the years. The west Somerset, for example, started off by painting its coaches red and white, gave them WSR logos and dressed their staff in maroon coats, nicknamed "Zoo keepers outfits". They saw themselves as a private railway that just happened to occupy the same tracks as the previous owners. There was no obligation to paint everything in so-called authentic colours. I think the KWVR was similar. The Talylyn is much the same: the private railway has just continued its existence and they have no need to recreate the past... Their railway just continues to the next iteration of liveries. Nowadays it is all about heritage and recreation of the past and much as I support this, I rather regret that loss of independent feeling that made the WSR paint BR coaches in Exmoor red and cream with a stags head on the side. The L&B could be in a similar situation. Do you preserve the past in aspic and only allow rolling stock, liveries, buildings etc that appeared before 1935 or do you give free flow and act as an independent company and just apply today's livery to your stock? Everything to do with heritage railways is a compromise, witness the (excellent) tea rooms at Woody Bay. Totally unauthentic, but a fantastic creation of what the L&B might have done had that company still existed today.
Ian C

 

Indeed, but @Jon Lever picked me up on a fallacy in my assertion about seasonal operation. I'd also suggest that the L&B runs between two centres and therefore had some advantage over the VofR.

 

It’s acknowledged that a recreated line can’t be a perfect facsimile of what went before. But my starting point would be “define what you want to portray, then document (and formally agree) exceptions to that design”. If you do that then sure, a station can have a non-prototypical toilet block or cafe, but there has at least been a structured decision making process as to how that non-authentic addition is designed, sited etc.

The alternative is a free-for-all.

Tom

 

Though as things played out, evidently not enough. Re: the VoR specifically. It needs to be kept in mind that after giving up on goods and all winter operations, the GW was free to concentrate all it's marketing effort on the tourists, where the Southern was still trying to market a year round, full 'common carrier' service across a longer day (i.e. one more complete shift) Where the GW was better equipped to restrict maintenance to the 'off season', the Southern had to fit this into year-round, timetabled operations. It seems the more valid comparison might have been with the L&MVLR .... unfortunately..

Could the L&B have become a summer only tourist line? Honestly, I don't know. The trip time was getting on for double that of the VoR (which, be it remembered, didn't run 'mixed' trains) and the scenic attractions at the outer terminus rather more accessible. The L&B was marketed as a (none too rapid) means to an end, where the VoR was (and is) marketed as an attraction in it's own right.

Consider that the oldest part of the 'Newnes Empire', the Cliff Lift, predated the railway and still performs the task for which it was constructed. What does that tell us? To me, the Cliff Lift has always performed it's task well. The railway, as a common carrier, less so. As a tourist attraction, things look a lot more promising, for both the L&B and the wider economy of Exmoor.

 

The Southern Railway closed 13 lines to passengers up to the end of the summer season 1935 including the L & B; 7 of those were closed altogether.

The GW designed the VOR locos in 1923 and built them in 1924. The SR agreed on its new engine in 1925, built the same year, so the GW was ahead on that one. LEW was probably needed because in 1924 with the introduction of a goods train a 3rd engine was needed in the summer to run them. One engine under repair, if a second failed there would be no spare.

The first buses in the early 20s between Barnstaple and Lynton cost 4/- (20p) single, 6/-(30p) return, while the railway fare was 2/6d (12 1/2p) single, double return, except on excursion and market trains. So little competition until later that decade when bus fares came down.

Horsedrawn coach passengers had to walk up all these hills (and the two at Parracombe) when the L & B was created. The decisions of individuals as well as Directors of transport organisations were made in a different environment in those days.

 

James that is an excellent document do you have access to the preservation standards Manual

OK I have just found it on the bluebell website

Thanks

 

A very quick scan of the Preservation Standards Manual and there is a lot of very useful information in it, I am not sure what other railways may have gone to that length, but all the same, the L&BR could learn some useful lessons from it.

 

In my defence, I did say "generally". There are cases of all of the Big 4 closing lines, especially to passenger traffic. Of interest, could you list t'others on SR territory? I can think of a couple of lost passenger services, two very close to me (Kemp Town and the Singleton line) and one where the SR really didn't want to get involved (WSR Chi to Selsey)

The Cambrian was absorbed into the GW on 1st Jan 1922, a year earlier than was the LSW into the SR (AFAIK, the Southern ended up completing the takeover of the L&B by the LSW, as the 1921 Act specifically exempted independent NG lines). Ever wondered how the GW managed to be quite to quick off the blocks with a bespoke design for a class of three NG locos? I'd love to know more details.

Presumably, such high prices on the first services were what encouraged the SR to go ahead with the order for Lew (I know when it was delivered, but does anyone know the actual date it was ordered?).

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that first generation of road buses were repurposed WWI chassis, designed for WD use. How do those first prices and timetables compare with 15 years later? Rolt mentioned bus fares in the Fathew Valley being lower than those of the TR, but neglected to mention dates.

In the case of the L&'s competition, another assumption would be the buses didn't dump their passengers some distance horizontally or vertically from their intended destination!

There are comments in the standard histories of the L&B that right down to the end, the line could be relied upon to get through in blizzard conditions which brough road traffic to a grinding halt .... but just not often enough.

 

Re Southern closures, perhaps the Lee on the Solent line as one suggestion?
To be pedantic, the Cambrian was amalgamated with the GWR "as from" 1 January 1922 as the amalgamation scheme (which had retrospective effect) was not sanctioned by the Amalgamation Tribunal until towards the end of March 1922. As you say though this was still some way ahead of the Southern Group's constituents getting their act together.
The Southern Railway Act of 1923 swept up the minority interest in the L&B which the LSWR had not acquired in 1922(?), vested the undertaking and dissolved the L&B company (the Act is available online at archives.parliament.uk).

 

Off the top of my head: Basingstoke and Alton, Fullerton Junction to Hurstbourne(?), Ramsgate Harbour branch.

I don't have my copy of C.C. Green's excellent book on the VOR to hand, but he talks about the 'rebuilding' process. If I remember correctly, the Walschaerts valve gear was copied from that used on the GWR steam railmotor units. The Swindon drawing office apparently relished the opportunity to work on something a little less standardised.

 

Yes, in 1930 the Southern Railway became a 50% shareholder with the National Omnibus & Transport Company (which had taken over the local bus Company, Hardy-Colwills in 1927) and formed a new Company - the Southern National Omnibus Company. Similar arrangements were made by the Great Western out of which arose Western National. In this way most of the major bus services were taken over by the big four, including Southern Vectis - what the Monthly Circular of Labour Research called 'Consolidation of Road Transport Monopoly'. Hence the appearance of SNO bus services in the railway timetable, initially for Sunday services between L and B which were not reintroduced by the Company after the war-time abandonment at the instigation of the Post Office. Towards about 1933 even more bus services filling in gaps in the Railway timetable appeared. It is too big a subject to go into detail here, but volume 2 of my intended L & B history will address the competition for the railway from 1922 onwards and the machinations of the local SNO Omnibus and its predecessor gradually eroding the local rail service, and the competition for summer traffic by the long-distance buses such a Royal Blue from London.

 

Oh, they did - service 110 - still ? Ilfracombe - Lynton 106, Ilfracombe/Combe Martin/Barnstaple 109. Western National between Minehead and Lynton and Lynmouth was their No 260. A 'frequent' service connecting Lynton Station with Lynton Town Hall started in the summer of 1933 - Southern National service 142.

 

Sorry I wasn't aiming to be clever. But, here goes:
3.3.1929 Tooting-Merton Park
1.1.1931 Canterbury-Whitstable (to Passengers)
1.4.1931 Hythe-Sandgate
6.7.1931 Hurstbourne Jcn-Fullerton Jcn
1.1.1931 Brocken hurst-Lee-on-Solent - It closed completely on the same day as the L & B
12.9.1932 Basingstoke-Alton (to Passengers) - It closed completely 1.6.1936
2.1.1933 Botley-Bishops Waltham (to Passengers)
2.1.1933 Dyke branch to goods - it closed completely 1.1.1939
21.1.1933 Kemp Town - Brighton (to Passengers)
29.5.1934 Junction near Hurstbourne
30.12.1933 Ruthern Bridge branch
8.7.1935 Chichester-Midhurst
30.9.1935 Barnstaple-Lynton

The Ramsgate Harbour branch and Ramsgate - Margate Sands closed on 2.7.1926 but I didnt include those as I believe they were replaced.

According to the Manning Wardle order book - the order was received on 22 February 1925, a little before it's purchase was approved by the SR Committees.

The SNO Buses between L & B started at the Junction station, stopped at the S.N. Office in Barnstaple, the Goodleigh Cross, Chelfham Cross, Bratton Fleming, Blackmore (sic) Gate, Parracombe Village, Wooda (sic) Bay Station, Golf Links Turn (i.e Caffyns), Barbrook Mill, Lynton S.N Office.

The available newspaper evidence suggests that is right - the railway still operated (with clearing gangs sent out) often even when the roads were clogged. But not every time. Details as available in forthcoming book.

 

And here's a very brief glimpse of that bus (and private car) competition in operation:
starting at 4:22
The location is the A39 towards Rowley Cross, with Parracombe in the background. Pity the bus number is not visible, but Lyn and her train certainly are.

 

I agree. Parracombe seems to me an example of fixation of ideas, once instilled, impossible to change, and there is an argument for demonstrating that fact. When the promoters were touting for petitions in March 1895 support of the Bill the local rector J F Chanter suspected they were ignoring Parracombe as Blackmoor Gate was 2 1/2 miles south and Martinhoe Cross 1 1/2 mile north. For reasons that can be assumed, when the prospectus was issued in November, 5 months after the Act received the Royal Assent, a station at Parracombe featured prominently. The following January the Company sent the Company Solicitor (Chanter's brother) and surveyor to a public meeting at Parracombe to help decide on a site for the station. 15 voted for Longlands. (the evidence connected with the siding indicates this was just beyond Parracombe Head Lane) and 9 for Rowley Cross. A full station was asked for. And another petition in August praying for a station near the village, which after all was next in size to Bratton Fleming along the line. The Board decided to try and persuade Col. Lake to move the station he wanted to the limit of his land (about half way towards Killington Lane), but clearly he wanted it at Martinhoe Cross to be as near his development as possible. The response to the petition was that it was now too late to consider any alteration. In November 1897 at a Parracombe PC meeting it was stated that the Company had agreed to a station provided there was no opposition to the Bill, and Mr Blackmore and Mr Smyth of Court Place had done so. Directors were now saying a station would not pay. After the opening there was a 'Growl against the Railway Directors' . Smyth said that from the first it was decided there would be stations at Blackmore Gate and Woolhanger Cross, which is why he opposed the line. In August 1898, 3 months after the opening, the Engineer told the Board of Trade it wanted to make a stopping place for certain trains - 'not a passing place or tablet station - a gate and platform, nothing else needed.' But still at the Company's half-yearly general meeting in September the Directors refused Chanter whose Solicitor brother said they had the right to change their mind in view of financial considerations - Wooda Bay station was insisted by Col Lake, Blackmoor was there for a proposed extension to Combe Martin. They would have 3 stations in 3 miles; the gradient was 1 in 50; expensive plant would be needed and staff to work the tablet system. Never-the-less it opened the following May and the new Manager bringing his ideas from the LSWR decided several trains should stop.

 

No it didn't work like that - once the L & B Company had accepted (with shareholders' approval) the LSWR's offer it was a fait acompli. In other words, when the SR came along the LSWR already owned 100% of the L & B, even if some shareholders hadn't sent in their share certificates for exchange. And the Debenture holders got the cash the shareholders had agreed. No minority interest.