7027 Thornbury Castle

You have put that so much better than my post, thankyou sir.

 

Thing is though nobody’s not exactly sure what’s going on…

 

In this modern existence that most of us find ourselves in, then I think that if you can put your contributions in the basket of “more than you should, and less than you’d like to”, then that’s just fine with me.

 

If nobody's sure what is going on the smart money is nothing.

It's not rocket science. A name, a bit of publicity, an escrow account or something of that sort so donors can be certain no-one is going to run off with the money and a way to give the dosh back if it doesn't work out.
The habit of secrecy around much loco ownership means that it is possible there's secret squirrel stuff somewhere, but if there is the chances of anyone wanting to turn down a potential supporters group armed with a cheque are minimal. The GWS gave a 6 month pause. Reckon at least two have gone already. If anyone wants to demonstrate that there is more than anonymous keyboard haters involved then digits need to be extracted and fast. Whinging that no-one sliced the bread and buttered the toast is utterly ineffectual.

 

Equally the negativity on here has possibly put people off wanting to get involved too. It goes both ways, Jim.

Nothing in preservation is a no hoper (we've seen worse restored with less) it just needs the right people involved. At the time of writing, ownership is unclear, the parties involved are silent.

I think that's probably where everyone should leave it before it becomes another bunfight on this thread about the rights and wrongs of peoples' views on 7027.

 

That is somewhat wishful thinking. Where do these "right people" come from? If the restoration price tag gets so high, there are few who could afford to take on the project. And before everyone shouts "crowd funding", that only works in a few cases where there is some real uniqueness about the project and a good publicity machine behind it.

 

"Right people" come from all walks of life and have one distinguishing feature - they are prepared to give their chosen cause sufficient priority within their lives to drive it forward and attract others to support them.
Its that simple.
So far it appears that nobody regards 7027 as a sufficiently high priority for them to step forward. Folks lives have always been busy. I simply don't buy the idea that life is a lot harder than it used to be. A bit different perhaps, easier in some ways, but not really harder.

 

Then everyone who hasn't got a unique steam locomotive may as well give up now.

Sorry, that's a fallacy. Railway preservation has proved that to not be the case. It's why we have 18 Black Fives in preservation, with most having been restored to working order and have run at one time or another.

 

I agree with your post but the problem with a project like this is the up front cost to even make a start. If you approached Didcot about buying it, what would be the likely price to purchase £100k ? That's a guess, so that immediately makes it a non starter for most individuals or a small group. It not like starting to restore something like a coach or wagon where it can be bought more cheaply. It's why nobody has come forward.

Back in the day when they were being bought from Barry, the price was what it was worth as scrap metal, so a much lower startup cost to get the project underway.

I firmly believe one day it will get restored, but it will need an already well established railway or organisation to take it on, but the larger locos are less suitable for preserved line use and its a time when they are trying to cut costs.

 

I don't think it is as simple as that. Yes there are lots of Black 5s preserved and restored, but arguably they hit a sweet spot in preservation terms: large enough that they can find remunerative use on both larger heritage lines and the mainline; but small (and simple) enough that overhauls are not massively complex or too expensive. So that is a lot of potential users. By contrast, the problem with a Castle is that it is likely to be more expensive to restore than a Black 5 in comparable condition, while then leading to a loco that has considerably fewer genuine use cases. (More restricted on the mainline, and too big and expensive for most heritage lines). Which really only leaves museum / curatorial interest, but we have several in museums or museum sites already, and not enough space under cover.

Ultimately, operationally not very useful locos have a future if they are very rare and / or historically significant (think Locomotion, Rocket - no-one would remotely consider consigning them to a headhunt to decay to rust). And very common locos have a future if they are operationally useful relative to their cost of operation (think Black 5s at the upper end; and Austerity tanks at the small end). The problem is locos that don't neatly fit either niche: a common loco with a limited use case, which I'd suggest the Castle is. I'd put Merchant Navies into a similar bracket: more preserved than there is likely to be mainline work for, and really too big for heritage line use. A few will continue to find an operational niche, but not all 11.

Tom

 

And even with something as useful as a black five, there are limits as to what's realistic - just look at 44901 not progressing anywhere fast.

 

There doesn't appear to be any link for donation on there, are you sure it wasn't the normal thing you get with Change and similar where when you sign they (the petition hosting website) then solicit a donation for the petition hosting costs not actually anything to do with the petition itself, which one can normally circumvent by saying you will share the petition elsewhere?

The last that I saw was that JJP had contacted the GWS but they had either not replied or had been extremely slow in replying, it would probably help if he provided some sort of update as I suspect a lot of people were waiting on the outcome of that.

 

Or it might be that talks are ongoing, but those involved want to keep it private, especially if the sale involves more than two people, its not 100 per cent clear, what was purchased from Mr Gregory, or if the actual purchase was completed, was it the whole kit of parts, that make up the engine, or just the boiler, ?

 

I think it’s very much clear as mud Martin, as I’ve said in a previous post nobody really knows what’s going on. Is this or isn’t a GWS supported project? What’s for sale (ie just frames or complete loco)
Are negations ongoing?
The politest way of putting it without swearing is it’s a crap storm.

 

It's been stated quite clearly its the whole package up for grabs, I don't know where this stuff about uncertainty comes from.

To my mind the only uncertainty comes from people who wish to find an excuse not to do anything, but still blame the GWS afterwards.

 

I don't think the highlighted statement is true. What some are saying is that saving 7027 is unlikely to be viable, one reason being the number of other preserved Castles. That has been so ever since the person previously financing the project decided to withdraw, and it would remain true with or without the plan to use the boiler for 4709.

 

Name a steam loco that is viable

 

The fact that lots of them are in regular operation shows that they are viable with appropriate volunteer support and fundraising. None are viable without those. It seems unlikely that 7027 can ever attract enough to be viable.

 

As you say, lots are in regular operation with volunteer support and finance - therefore they are not solely viable. I see no reason why 7027 could not be 'viable' in the same manner. It just needs someone/some group to start the ball rolling.