North Yorkshire Moors Railway General Discussion

The WTT has it down for the 21st-24th but it is still a draft so technically subject to change. I doubt it will, though.

 

Is there anything shown for what would have been the Wartime Weekend in the past?

 

I found a coach company who organise day trips and they're advertising it for the 7th October.

 

No special events planned for October but, as I said, it is still a draft and things can always change. The vibes are that this event is now too expensive to stage, even if it becomes subtly different. There is a limit to how much money you can take when all trains are full and the costs of staging the event will not go down just because you have made those changes.

 

7th October is currently a standard Bronze T/T

 

The trick must surely be to scale the event back to the optimum size for profitability, not to ditch it all together!

 

I’m not too sure it is as simple as that. The previous event involved much more than the railway and more people than ever rode on the railway. There were requirements for such as extra police, security people, road closures and a whole lot more, requiring significant costs and organisation over many months and there would be similar expectations from the authorities with any replacement event. It is difficult to argue that you are putting on an event that will attract far less people than previously until you have proof that this is the case.

Edited to correct typos.

 

I find that a little difficult to agree with -there were large swathes of the event that could be dropped to scale it back - no vehicles, no re-enactments etc - but still retain the essence. Perhaps make it could be made more relevant to today by turning all the lights out and more of an emphasis on austerity cooking practices! Seriously, it surely can't be all or nothing!

 

If you’re going to scale something back in that way maybe it has to rest for a few years so the rebirth is not connected with the previous event?

 

At a time when most railways are staring into a potential abyss it seems strange to me that there seems to be little interest in saving something from a massively popular event - one that brings in crowds that well in excess of what would normally be dreamed of! I'd have thought that starting with too big an event and reining it back would be a lot easier than doing the opposite.

 

I think your question was answered above by Steve.

 

And I think I pointed out in my following post that I wasn't sure that I agree with him and why...... Isn't this a discussion forum, and isn't what I've just described , well, discussion?

 

Yes this is a discussion. And I think Steve answered your question. Up to you if you want to move the discussion forward. No one is suggesting it has stop here.

 

I think that my point is that there has been a lot of experience down the years with this event, and I would be amazed if there wasn't a good working knowledge of the elements that draw the crowds in - and then if those elements are understood it should be possible to scale back or eliminate the ones that threaten to overwhelm the event. I'm not in favour of the NYM being regarded as a park and ride facility for Whitby, but this is surely one occasion when it could be exploited for that very reason - make the event Whitby-centred (Whitby has the experience of other successful events such as the Goth festival to draw upon) instead of Pickering and look to carry passengers rather than shoulder all the responsibilities. It could perhaps even work with Northern Rail to improve its access arrangements that weekend to provide an hourly "tidal flow" of trains in the morning and afternoon to better meet demand. AIUI, Whitby has always wanted a bigger role to cash in on. Underlying all this is that it's an event that has the potential to develop large sums, not just for the NYMR but also its economic partners, at a time when the economic outlook seems quite bleak. That would be a box ticking virtue for grant awarding bodies as well as generating goodwill from local authorities, both useful commodities. It is surely at least worth exploring the possibilities rather than filing in the "too difficult" round bin. Also, isn't it the sort of thing the NYMR was awarded its 0.25M/yr NPO grant for, and don't aspects of it fit into its new "living museum" and educational ethos. Sometimes effort beyond than filling in grant application forms is called for!

 

Do we know that the possibilities haven’t been explored?

I see where you’re coming from, but Steve has a very valid point too doesn’t he which isn’t answered yet I feel. Which is that if you e had a huge event, one that requires additional policing etc, then convincing the powers that be that you can attract fewer people is an uphill battle.

The other point is that if you have had a massive event you know the profits and the risks. It’s possible that a cold look at things says, this is a distraction from running the core railway and an unwarranted risk?

 

My objection to 'War on the Line' style events is not the subject matter, as such. It is that it is perpetuating a myth - that 'Britain won the war'. No, Britain ended up on the winning side; a very different thing. Without the Empire, the Yanks and, above all, the Red Army we would all be wearing lederhosen.
Pat

 

No, I don't know for sure, but I would like to be reassured - though communications from Castle Park Street don't really offer that, for the most part! You surely can't have missed the cries coming from all directions on this board that the recent increases in costs are making it nigh on impossible to even break even on running train services, so what might be termed "extraneous" attractions are needed to bring in the extra "bums on seats". If that is the case then it makes sense to start with an event of proven popularity and try to adapt it to make it fit (and get someone else, as I suggested in my previous post) to take on the responsibility for the non-railway organisation. Given that "Thomas" events are also now too expensive, the only really big crowd-pullers left these days seem to be Galas and Wartime eventsI've a feeling that Whitby started their own independent wartime event because they felt they weren't getting enough involvement with the NYMR-based event, so that would seem to be an open door to push at.

As for the bellicose nature these events, I don't think that's the reason most people attend. Some (re-enactors in articular) do, but I think the attraction for many is the perceived sense of camaraderie of the time (even if it is to a degree mythological) and that's what should be focused upon - music, fashion and even cookery given that we seem to be fast approaching a generation who think that cookery can be done be dialling a number and placing an order!

 

I'd go further than that and suggests it creates the idea that not only did "we" win the war, it was done by drinking tea and playing lots of Glen Miller, and not by millions of people dying. I think it is by no means concidental that these events take off as the real generation that remembers the war as adults dies away.

Then you have the whole madness of german re-enactors. How is this any kind of living museum to add German soldiers to a british railway?

 

The interesting question on that is why eg, Victorian, 30s, 50s etc events don't take off.

Bums on seats are good, but bums on seats that pay their way are what matter. If the overheads of the event outstrip the money received, then they are no good at all (unless you look at wider PR value, at which point the negatives could again outweigh the positives).

In an age where far-right rioters are throwing fireworks at hostels, I'd not want to run the risk of giving any approval to flying a swastika right now.

 

Although wandering far off topic, the iconic milkman in the blitz pic is faked. A very necessary thing at the time, but it shows how problematic the period was.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/books/authors/the-blitz-reactions-to-nazi-bombing-of-London/