Lynton and Barnstaple - Operations and Development

All heritage railways depend on activists to get things moving ! Why do you think you are alone in wanting a longer and better Lynton and Barnstaple Railway ? There are all the members of the Trust, Exmoor Associates, and all the other affiliated groups trying to get the job done. You must have realised in the early days what an enormous undertaking this is and yet you expect it all to just happen, as if it were just a matter of laying a bit more track. It wasn't an existing line like the WSR or even an existing trackbed like the GWSR, and look what efforts they had to go to to get to Broadway ! The land ownership and rights of way have to be negotiated and planning requirements have to be met, all of which takes time and money. Volunteers time at that !
I'm not sure what you think you can achieve by firing a constant stream of criticism from the darkest corners of Kent. It seems you don't understand the processes required and are not willing to let the current Trustees and managers get on with the job. I know that, if you have been a Trustee or a Board member in the past, it is often difficult to step back and let others do it their way but you have to. If they want your advice they will ask for it, otherwise your constant carping is, as others have pointed out, merely damaging the morale of the members and obstructing the very progress you claim to want.
Why not give it a rest for a few weeks and see how the current application works out ?

 

Well said.

 

I can't - and won't - speak for lynbarn, but....IMHO all the signs are that the current applications will not 'work out' in time to meet next month's deadline. As a Trust member and (in a modest way) volunteer, what I want to know is - what happens next if they do not? Is there a 'Plan B' already concealed up the corporate sleeve, or do we face having to start all over again? Why have the membership at large not been given the details from the November 'forum'? Etc etc...

 

Why on earth would they publicise a possible plan b when a decision on plan a hasn't even been made yet?

 

I am NOT expecting them to publicise an actual Plan, merely to give members the reassurance that one does exist. Is that too unreasonable to ask?

Firstly, having (at least one) 'fall back' Plan is always a good idea with any large/important/expensive project. The first thing that any good Project Manager would ask ought to be "but what would you do in the event that your initial proposal does not work?"

Secondly - and please feel free to disagree with me if you can provide the evidence (offline if necessary) - based on the known chronology and procedure situation the Sec73 applications simply can not be decided now within the necessary timescale (and that's even assuming that the decision goes in the railway's favour anyway). So far, no one has come on here to disprove that....

 

I would argue that advertising the fact that a 'Plan B' exists, even semi-publicly like on a member's newsletter means that you then lose the ability to argue to whoever it is you need to convince 'we need to do this to grow and survive'. If you can grow and survive with Plan B, then isn't Plan A just a nice to have?

All it takes is for someone to post it on a place like this and it can be used against you by whoever cares to read it.

Alternatively, Plan B already exists, it's just the status quo, and that might not be as exciting to advertise...

 

The objective of the Trust is to rebuild the line from Pilton to Lynton. If, instead of a few large chunks (Plan A), it is rebuilt in a larger number of smaller chunks (Plan B), the original objective will be still be achieved but in a much longer timescale. Each of those Plan B small chunks is still needed to enable the railway to 'grow and survive' to achieve its main goal. IMHO simply to accept the 'status quo' for yet another 17 years (or whatever) is not an option....

 

I am fairly confident that there is at least a Plan B and probably a Plan C and D. As a trust member I am happy to wait a few weeks to what the outcome of the S73 application is and then find out what happens next.
As I have said before this forum and the L and B website will be being watched by those who oppose the extension and so I believe that we should not be speculating about what happens next. We want the railway to suceed and I for one do not want to see that scuppered by careless talk in this open forum.

 

I'm a little puzzled as to the difference between your confidence in the probable existence of a Plan B and my questioning as to whether one exists or not.

 

And no doubt those who oppose the extension will be pleased to see those who support it arguing amongst themselves in public.

 

Plan B will obviously come into action only if plan A fails so it would seem natural that plan B would have to be how to pacify and convince all of those demoralised members, supporters and volunteers that the failure of plan A wasn't actually 'our' fault and that yes we really are the men to continue the job, plan C would then be to change the ....ohh i better not go down that rabbit hole.
On a lighter note i see although there is no spring gala in May it has been said on the facebook page they are having 'fireworks' at the AGM , how exciting is that, I hope they are as good as the ones Barnstaple town put on for New Years Eve

 

But surely the key point is that the 'arguments' are about how best to take the railway forward to meet its goal of rebuilding the whole line, not whether to have an extension or not.

 

There is nothing stopping detractors from joining the trust and obtaining inside info anyway, they can even attend meetings and ask the questions themselves so the info on here and social media probably won't help them too much.

In terms of the detractors, they may well support the railway but just not want a terminus station on their doorstep so some of the alternative proposals mentioned here and elsewhere might help alleviate some of their concerns? (I realise I'm perhaps clutching at straws here!)

 

I think I can say without to much doubt no one in the L&BR wants a railway to terminate in Parracombe, but to carry on toward Barnstaple and again it is down to how this information is spread or understood.

If you spread confusion you will end up with confusion, the L&BR group have as far as I know alway said they want to rebuild as much of the L&BR between Lynton and Barnstaple, there will be parts that we can't use anymore and we shall need to plan and build a new route for the bits we have lost.

But one thing is for sure, if the extension does not happen, then we need to look at buying what other trackbed is available to us to increase our trackbed holding. We shall also then need to consider buying some extra land to develop a museum and workshop site.

I have not includes the OSHI site in this since we don't what is happening to it.

 

One of several possible Plans B (or C, D, X, etc) would surely have to be to look at the line from Wistlandpound to Chelfham. The various L&B entities own the stations at Bratton Fleming and Chelfham (and may own Blackmoor in the near future) and several chunks of trackbed. Various possible parts of this route could be concentrated on, of course. So, this plan X would require trackbed acquisition along the chosen section and the eventual mothballing of WB to KL until such time as objections at Parracombe are no more.

 

The one part of any plan has to include a direct linked site for a workshop and covered accommodation for locos and rolling stock, sadly there are very few places (if any) that this could happen between Blackmoor to Chelfham/Snapper, If such a site could be found then you would need to undertake a major civil engineering project to make it happen in the first place.

I think it was suggested some time ago that the Blackmoor - Snapper section will need to be done as one single project and also in effect one go. It would make sense that is we can't get Blackmoor - Woody Bay then to join forces with EA to acquire all the trackbed and a route from Snapper to Blackmoor.

This could give you an 8 or 9 mile line (not including any diversions that need to take place), however there would be a big issue at the Snapper end since there will be no car parking space here.

Snapper- Barnstaple could be a major stumbling block as Barnstaple has expanded since the line closed, and it might end up with us trying to find a possible a new route into Barnstaple. I would like to think that it is, but no one is going to support our long term aims if we can't deliver on just a short section of the railway we already have.

This really is a make or break time for the project.

 

I hope that it is rather make or regroup. Suggesting that failure is a possibility is a good way to encourage the objectors.

 

Exactly right. I am prepared to wait and see what happens rather than speculate.

 

>>>>The one part of any plan has to include a direct linked site for a workshop and covered accommodation for locos and rolling stock, sadly there are very few places (if any) that this could happen between Blackmoor to Chelfham/Snapper, If such a site could be found then you would need to undertake a major civil engineering project to make it happen in the first place.....

Agreed. However....it might be feasible to persuade the ENPA - by means of a new, simpler planning application - to permit just the Depot at BR anyway, together with the necessary short section of track-bed to connect it to the site of the station/railhead. Given that would be the only new bit of railway within the ENPA, it might draw far less objections.

>>>>> however there would be a big issue at the Snapper end since there will be no car parking space here....
But would that really be a problem, if you still aimed for most passengers to board at BR rather than SR? After all, how different would it be from the current situation at KL or the proposed temporary terminus at WD? The main issues are more likely the need to have sufficient width of track-bed for a run-round loop, the possible need to extend the platform to cater for longer trains (how many coaches would it accommodate at the moment?) and hence the possible impact on its 'heritage'.

 

Let me say here I would love to be proven wrong on all I have said in the past, but I have been around this group for a long time and not much changes sadly, what we all need to take on board and that is we can't allow past mistakes to happen again very simple.