7027 Thornbury Castle

It’s clear from the official records that, whatever the blathering about “autonomous groups” within the GWS, 4709 is part of GWS. Discussion beyond that confuses the choice of pocket with the pair of trousers they’re part of.


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It could well matter if the charities commission decides it wants to involved yes.

 

The thing I find quite strange, is why there wasn't there more interest from the GCR and its supporters in continuing the restoration themselves. ?

They must have been aware it was coming up for sale and obviously losing the wealthy sponsor of the project would have been a blow to the progress but could they have not bought it (like they did with the 9F also belonging to the same individual) and carried on ? perhaps at a much slower rate without the original expected funding ?

Is that not an option even now, as the parts are still at the GCR, to just agree to cancel the sale to Didcot and for the GCR and/or its supporters to buy it and carry on ? Most Barry restorations have been done without a millionaire backer, so why should this one be any different ?

 

Maybe it needs repeating (given the passage of time) but my understanding from last year is that:

• Nobody, least of all, the GCR volunteers working on the loco, was aware of the sale outside of the parties involved (4709 group and the owner).
• The loco being for sale was not advertised in the railway press or elsewhere prior to the sale, as far as I know
• It was through social media that volunteers found out the loco had been sold. This is a matter of public record if you go and read the page for the loco (you may need the way-back machine or similar to read it, I don’t know)

 

The seller wanted to sell, and did. The buyers wanted to buy, and did. Who is going to agree to cancel the sale in that situation?

 

But why would they?

 

I think that many on the GCR would have liked them to buy it but the cost would have been too great ie purchase price £x00,000 plus completion cost approx £1M.
The 9F is complete and running and was actually paid for by a supporter via DCRT.
The GCR is having to find Lots of money to replace bridges and renew infrastructure....... Plus the Gap project...... Plus work on the GCR(N) section. It would be great if the money could be found from somebody or group, but time is nearly up.

 

Hard to be sure, but there have certainly been questions about the operation of governance within the GWS set-up that appears to have effectively allowed a sub-group to act independently of the trustees and take on a significant liability without apparently being subject to approval by GWS.

 

Has it ever been released what the 47xx group paid for 7027 considering at the last accounts they 'only' had £80,190 in the pot and were making less than £100k a year in donations?

 

Do you really think that will happen..... what planet are you on?

 

No, I don't think the purchase price of 7027 has been released and I am of the opinion that the seller wanted to keep it that way.

 

Not that I've ever heard tell. And, to the question from @Fireline, if there's a liability there for GWS that they can't meet, that might well be the trigger for various investigations, not just Charities Commission.

 

That is just not true though is it. There was a big article in the front of one of the trackside magazines saying that the Gregory family were looking to potentially sell the locos. Sure it wasn't a formal advert with a price but it indicated they were potentially up for sale for enthusiasts. The following months mag then had the article about the sale to Didcot.

Now not everyone might have read it but there must of been at least some GCR supporters with their finger on the pulse who were aware and mess room gossip gets passed about anyway. A quick phone call to the owner would no doubt have confirmed the situation.

Its no good acting all, it's so unfair we didn't know. Even now Didcot has given them an open second chance to buy should they wish to pursue it.

 

If the GWS had purchased it, with a view to restoring it, because its a missing link in the Castle evolution in their collection, then i would be 100 percent in favour, But, they didn't they, or someone who is using the GWS as his own personal empire, has and didnt tell them, until it was a fate decree, and for what to strip an already part restored engine as a parts donor to some kind of wish list, that again no one knew about, Had the 4709 group been open about their plans, might the sale had not gone through ? if it had in the knowledge, that the engine was going to be broken up, then, it says a lot about the depth of ill feeling the former owner had towards the GCR,

 

I keep seeing this sort of thing on Railway Preservation forums, normally when a decision has been made that someone disagrees with.

Then follows an examination of the minutiae of some organisation's minutes, charitable status, articles of association, financial information, etc. to try and find a hint of impropriety that carries more weight than "I don't like this," with a comment about how some higher force is going to have to get involved.

If someone in a special interest group does something you don't like frequently it really is tough **** that as an adult you just have to suck up. The threats about involving an authority group or figure to correct the perceived injustice is the worst kind of playground bullying and really has no place in a world that is already difficult enough for preservation groups to survive in.

If it bothers you that much find the money yourself, stand for election, go to an AGM, do whatever. But don't go on the internet and make shaded threats about how you might have to tell someone else about how mean someone has been to you.

 

Either party might, if either (a) the promised $$ are not forthcoming or (b) they fear the reputational damage will be too great.

It's certainly one line of thought, the other is that he simply delegated the sale to someone who neither knew nor cared about what they were selling or who to, and just wanted to get rid of a liability. I've no idea, but since the subsequent sale of 92214 to the GCR's support charity I am perhaps leaning more away from the former theory.

 

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to defend Didcot or the Night Owl group, but all I'm hearing is "ifs", "maybes" and "mights". Yes, they might become involved later down the line, but right now they're not. Short of asking the Gregorys or the Night Owl group how the sale came about, we won't find out, and all the conjecture and guesswork is, frankly, pointless. The fact is that, at present, DidOwl own a unique Castle. People are in uproar over their plans, but have done nothing more than type furiously about it. I seem to recall similar uproar about 48518 being broken up, yet no-one stepped forward to save it. Due to how much stuff was lost by the end of steam, there are any number of "unique" items in preservation.

Incidentally, as a non-locoman, can someone tell me how I would tell that 7027 was a unique Castle were it to be in front of me, in steam? I don't mean by opening the smokebox door, or looking in some other orifice, but just by looking at it as the average punter would, from the platform.

 

Its not unique any more, 5029 now has a 3 row superheater.

 

Here's a timeline from posts in this very topic.
1 Aug 2016 report of sale (no reports it was available)
8 August. Report of owner JJP holdings and move to Weston Super Mare
15 Nov 2019 report in a mag suggests is open for offers
23 Jan 2020 GCR Twitter/website says has been sold and will be moved to GCR.
7 Jul 2022 report in a mag 7027 up for sale
12 Aug report sold for spares

 

Interesting if true? Certainly not commented on this thread as far as I can see.

Hmmm.

No one has any issues with this part of the timeline, Jim.

I would be interested in seeing this report, I don’t remember it (was this the Trackside article mentioned earlier?)