Lynton and Barnstaple - Operations and Development

Just like a car, caravan or motor home cover they hold in damp and cause green mould although that probably isn't the right term but aiui they were deemed unsuitable

 

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Why not, ENP is a major agricultural area, what I had suggested was an arched silage clamp cover similar to the top curve of a polytunnel but a lot stronger, available in green to blend in and fixable to old rail uprights

 

With regard to the cutting being used as storage for the carriages.

The cutting has one major problem in that the air stagnates, in fact, I have been at Woody and the whole site has a air of damp stagnation, no air movement, everything absolutely wringing wet.

But the cutting tends to trap air and moisture even more so than the surrounding site So when the covers were first bought, and the carriages over wintered in the cutting there was huge problems with mold, mildew and unfavourable effects in the 1st class upholstery too. In comparison it was far better to have them out in the station, or the sidings, uncovered and let the wind dry them where if in the cutting they never really dried out. By leaving the door vents open this also allowed air flow through the carriages to reduce the mold and mildew problem.

Another problem by using covers is the canvas scuffs the paintwork especially in high winds, even if not apparent, if it has scuffed the varnish layer away the paint is compromised.

There has been various discussions on how we can utilise the cutting for storage, the biggest problem I can see is how to resolve the stagnation of air on those days where its foggy, nothing dries out and no wind but also having a structure which is strong enough to withstand an Atlantic storm.

A polytunnel type shed could be used but as I saw at Boston Lodge, the walls need to be open for the first foot or so to allow air flow, or maybe by hit and miss boarding as you would see in a cow shed type building. The top cover, if similar material to the tea room marquee was used, perhaps even a double layer for strength, and a colour which blends in such as a forest or grass green, then it shouldn't be seen from the road much. The main shed and cutting sides will afford some protection against damage by high winds.

It will all depend on the opinion of the ENPA on if they will allow such a structure.

Not an easy problem to solve, but it is and has been looked at/reviewed quite often.

 

Thank you for some new information about some of the issues associated with the L & B. As is often the case, what seems to be easy from the outside, is often far more complex in reality.
What is also apparent is that, in the absence of fact, rumour flourishes unchallenged......
We also know that the L & B is a long term project!

 

The

The railway has barns at Rowley which they have owned for quite a few years, one of these could have been repaired and modified internally to create a carriage workshop no doubt without the need for planning, there are also a couple of agricultural trailer manufacturers in the area who could make a custom built trailer to transport the carriages between the railway and Rowley using a tractor as I believe they can tow approx 18 tonnes, all carriages could be kept under cover throughout the closed season between the two sites, more room would be available at Rowley for a dedicated carriage work shop, let's be honest the paint shop at WB is a little bit snug to say the least, I must add in the post you picked up on I didn't say you or the volunteers couldn't be bothered, the post was talking of the trustees and the comment was a question as to why they had not yet acted on getting something sorted out,

 

It's as simple as that is it! What if you wanted to run a charter train? What if you needed to do work to the underframes? How much would all this cost both in terms of money and man hours? Is there any room at Roley in the first place? It has been suggested loads of times but the logistics of actually doing it would be a nightmare.

 

ENP may be a major agricultural area but the L&BR isn't into agriculture and the relaxations that farming gets simply won't apply.

You might just get away with using the barns for storage but the chances of you being able to work in them would be much less. Workplace buildings have to comply with an awful lot more legislation. I don't have much knowledge of planning legislation but you obviously have even less understanding than me.

 

Tom, nothing worth doing is simple.

When was the last time the L&B ran a charter train in the off-season?
Why could work on the underframes not be carried out at Rowley just as well as at Woody Bay?
If money is a problem, why do we bother with any of the L&B restoration?
Room could be made for at least some of the carriages (maybe 2?). Would that not be better than leaving them all exposed to the elements?
The logistics would indeed be challenging, but the L&B has faced worse problems over the past 30 years or so since I got involved, so why not this?

I'm not saying it should be done, but there is no harm in exploring all possibilities for getting the best out of the resources available rather than simply rejecting them out of hand.

 

The railways last charter train was over this winter, bringing in vital income to help keep things ticking over. I get what your saying and I didn't mean to get snarky. As far as I see it there is unfortunately no practical way to store the carriages undercover until a large rail connected shed can be constructed. I agree that nothing worth doing is simple, but then again why make mountains out of molehills.

 

I'm afraid it was emailed to EA shareholders as an attachment to one of the trackbed trails, you can read some of the responses on the trackbed trails which are on the EA website, unfortunately they probably won't make any sense without having read the assessment/appraisal first, I know there was

Really! This is why you would have a maintenance schedule, so as to plan the work needed, even if a custom made trailer and work at Rowley cost £30k which I doubt it would that's nothing compared to the investment in the carriages

 

If that's the case then how have they managed at Fridaywood farm where they build the carriages, Where there's a will there's a way

 

There seems to be a hint of defeatism in your reply, Thomas.
Currently, there is a Forth Bridge situation regarding carriage maintenance at Woody Bay. It must be quite soul- destroying to those charged with the task of somehow keeping 5 timber bodied carriages weatherproof and in good repair, on a Moor top 1000ft above sea level. Would you rather it continued that way?
I can understand the problem of the cutting being a humidity trap for storage, even with cover, so the idea of transport to Rowley has attractions. Obviously the key driver is space, and I don't know the layout well enough to comment, but neither, apparently, do you, so let's have a think. With my realistic (sceptical) head on, I can't see much likelihood of Blackmoor depot being built within the next 10 years at this rate, although I'd really love to be proved wrong on that.
That leaves another years of expenditure and manpower devoted solely to maintaining our rolling stock in a serviceable condition, something which will surely become more onerous as time goes on.
Against this we need to weigh the cost of a 2nd hand tractor, and a custom built trailer for carriage transport. The entrance to Rowley has already been widened for articulated vehicles. Transhipment would become easier with practice and refinement of the process.
This would be a one off cost, as opposed to ongoing for continuous repainting/ varnising/ remedial replacement of rotting woodwork, etc.
Surely it is worth considering rather than rejecting without a thought.
Or do you have a possible solution of your own, in which case, do please share.

 

Some interesting suggestions on utilising the Rowley barns for over winter storage. One could certainly be used for a workshop, with woodwork machine room on one side, carriage build in the middle and a paint shop on the other side.

The lower barn I can't recall the length of it but you could store 3 carriages, possibly 6.

But (always a but isn't there, hehe) we have to remember Rowley itself would need some of that space for a tractor and kit for the grounds.

Transportation to and from Woody to Rowley should now be far easier than before with the widening of the entrance at Rowley, now being capable of taking artics. Not sure any agricultural system would be allowed now as its strictly not for agricultural purposes, this would need to be checked out with police and I guess Vosa.

But realistically the problem can be solved with the use of a 40' platform or flatbed container. These are containers without sides and some are without ends but specially strengthened decks. On that deck rails could be permanently fixed at the correct gauge and a chocking system and chain down points put in appropriate places.

When it comes to moving day for the carriages to be put under cover for the winter a side loader container rig is hired for the day. These things will lift a fully loaded container from the side with two hiabs, straight on, lock down and off they go.

Being as Lyn is 26tons there is no reason any loco couldn't be moved this way.

The advantages are: no cost to maintain a trailer with regard to running gear, yearly tests, tyre conditions, brakes and so on. No power unit standing idle, just a commercially available container rig being paid for the time being used.

Obviously costs would need to be looked into and also whether there is a suitable storage place for the flat bed.

Before the pandemic I could pick a flatbed up for under £2k at Felixstowe docks, looking today they are nearer £5k

 

We know when we are doing things wrong, the swallows sit in the rafters and tell us, sometimes 4-6 of them in a row telling us off!
Nice to get some peace in the winter without the ear bending lol

 

I was under the impression that a modest amount of 'workshop work' was/is being done at Rowley anyway. Not been able to get there yet myself, but have seen the photos...

 

The key first question is what do you mean and require from a carriage shed.
Storage over the winter? During the season? As a workshop?
So they can be serviced inside or put away each night etc etc etc.
Moving them off site in real terms would mean they are undercover six to seven weeks a year when you take into account the actual moves involved
The current barns aren't easy to access even with the new road entrance with a suitable trailer. The barns themselves aren't suitable either in design. For example roof supports every where and one is half open.
Different buildings in with better access then yes it's an option.
Take right now though they have been out in worse weather and storms in last few weeks than in February when when were maybe inside.
Tom's point about maintenance is very valid one. One example lifting for bogie exams and work. Gantry is at Woody Bay currently and no way could be done at the farm height wise.
We need access underneath with a large pit for many jobs, again not easy at present.
I won't go into list of inspection and servicing but is time consuming and we only have small staff. Loading and travelling would make that bit worse.
Again a new shed with the right layout agreed would be ideal but the barns are old milking barns on there last legs.
I'm in no way being negative and started by trying to explain we do care about the coaches and are looking at options and have few ideas.
I can't speak for the past only since I joined and I'm looking ahead and at all options.
Carriages are one part of a huge number of similar things.
Will it take time.... Yes
Will we get it right every time... Probably not
Are we working hard at it.... Yes
Are we making improvements.... Without a doubt

As I've said often I'm happy to talk in person as I believe it's way to solve many things. I know certain issues look easy from a far but happy to show you considerations and limits we have to consider.
I say again let's not knock each other and find the best way forward which is thought through.
We as a railway family, and I mean all groups have much to be proud of.
Busy week followed by our busy free locals weekend now so that will keep us busy for abit


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Must admit, I will have to refresh my memory sometime on those barns, only been there a few times. Top one I could make as a building barn, lower one I've only seen twice on filthy days and I do recall lots of support steel in there.

The transport system via flatbed could be useful though, no need to roll on a low loader, just onto the platform, then lift on. Could probably do 2...maybe 3 moves in one day between Woody and Rowley if peeps were up early enough hehe

Breakfast down that way isn't til at times 10am!

 

My solution is as has been said above, keep on doing the best we can to look after the carriages in their current state/home. Although I still definitely think that going to Roley is a no go, again it has been explained above from someone worth listening to.

 

The problem i see with that is firstly we need to keep @DaveE in a job making carriages quite simply because he excels at what he does, I'm sure he will correct me if I'm wrong but is it no9 that's next to be built and then there will be van 23 with luck, WB has limited space so you will soon be running out of that resource, when will the proposed sheds at Rowley now be built, as @Mark Thompson has said maybe 5-10 years time, who knows, so whats the problem with utilizing something that's already there, yes work may have to be done to make the barns suitable but it seems apparent that dedicated carriage storage and a workshop will be needed sooner rather than later, there's no reason why bogie/chassis work cant be done at WB and by keeping carriages at Rowley when not needed frees up more space in the workshop and outside at WB

 

There is one driver I know, James Milner, and possibly his brother, who could probably have got a rig down into that yard even without the widening. When he picked up No 5 from Fridaywood you would be absolutely blown away with where he got his rig into, and back out again once loaded lol

Took about half hour, with half an inch one side to a brick wall and half inch the other to a down pipe, 45-50' swan neck triple axle trailer plus unit, reversed.

The next week we had a driver come in with a little transit and take the down pipe out.... He got some stick for sure lol

Edit:I'll see if I can dig some pics out if any were taken at the time