Door locks

A case for the ORR, surely?
Pat

 

At the SVR, we are working off the original BR lock manuals that stipulate the correct type of grease to be used. We also have an overhaul schedule for all our locks so they dont get gummed up and seize.

 

Either that or the Press Complaints Commission

Tom

 

Signs only get you so far, you need people to read them and many will not do so! The number of people I've seen yanking on a door with an 'out of order' sign on has long suggested to me that really, the only answer to all this is to ensure you have sufficient proactive staff around to do effective checks.

 

There will certainly be variations and more specific instructions from original manufacturers. The inside of the lock often has a specific type of grease, but I've seen big splodges of grease plastered on the snips and latches and even heavy engine oil pumped in from the outside of locks to quickly free them up. Works for a few days maybe but does the lock no good at all.

Proper maintenance does mean removing the lock and suitable servicing of the mechanism inside with appropriately recommended lubricants.

 

You mean like the ones that say do not lean out of the window. Not going to work.

 

Yes that did spring to mind when I read the suggestion.

Sent from my moto g(7) play using Tapatalk

 

Responding to various posts with my SVR hat on*...

If you have consistent types of lock in use on the railway, that would be a good option. On the SVR there will be several sets of carriages in use on any given day which may have different types of lock; the GWR set in particular will probably have at least 3 different types of lock in the one set. If you write a chapter and verse guide to all the locks in use and the sets you find them on, some people will be interested but the chances are many won't bother to read the whole thing.

It could be done subject to the risk of being trapped in an emergency being considered acceptable, but it adds to the dwell time at stations. The SVR has the added difficulty that different stations involve different doors being used, front carriages at Bewdley and Hampton Loade, rear carriages at Arley and middle at Hampton Loade on Down trains.

If the droplight is left in the down position, the notice disappears! It could also be printed below the window but again as others have said, not everyone will read the notice (or should be expected to?).

I don't have a copy of the rule book, but I assume ultimately it is the Guard's responsibility to check all the doors on the train are secure before signalling right away. Having sufficient staff on the platform to assist with opening, closing, (locking?) and checking has to be a large part of the answer. Ideally at least one member of platform staff per carriage on the platform, even then they will be covering a number of doors.

*Edit for clarity, this is my personal opinion and not a statement on behalf of the railway.

 

I can't speak for the SVR, but in our rule book the provision for starting trains reads, in part:

The signal for starting a passenger train must be given by the Guard, where provided, after obtaining an intimation from the person in charge of the platform that all is right for the train to proceed. At stations where no platform staff is in attendance at the train, the Guard will be responsible for giving the signal to start to the Driver after satisfying himself that all is right for the train to proceed.

(My emphasis)
​

In other words, the procedure is that the person in charge of the platform has to check that the train is in a fit state to proceed (which would include all doors being correctly closed and secured); he or she would then signal to the guard; and the guard in turn signals to the loco crew to start. Only if there is no one on the platform does the guard have the actual responsibility of checking all doors.

The effect of that is that the platform staff - certainly the person in charge - is a safety-critical role, since ultimately they are authorising a movement.

Tom

 

"intimation"??!

Maybe someone needs to rewrite your rule book in simpler, more current English?

 

That’s decidedly non-trivial, and not something I would suggest that you would want to undertake lightly. (Essentially “re write the rule book, validate it leaves no loopholes, then re-certify hundreds of operational staff on the new rules …”)

The current wording may be old-fashioned but it does have the advantage of long-standing and is written with precision.

But that’s probably for a different thread.

Tom

 

The SVR rulebook was rewritten (I think about 2010 but might be slightly off) to have simpler language and is actually in the process to being reviewed and reformatted at the moment. I'll try to dig out the revelant passage from our rulebook.

 

What do you do when the window is down?

 

I think they just saw a story here, and wrote about it in a sensationalist manner as any tabloid might. Certainly made the GCR incidents sound as bad as possible without making false claims. Interesting that they did not name this 'heritage railway in the north' so presumably did not trust the source who gave them that quote, which sounds like hearsay to me. Clearly the SVR were ok for a story to be written about them as they responded to the request for comment, maybe they did not appreciate it would be a more negative one about themselves and other railways. But agree with you, the lines should be doing their best to avoid giving the press any ammunition.

 

ok, good point, on the door, itself, or next to it, but if the public are that dim, that they can't work out you turn the handle, then everyone of them , need locking up in padded cells for their own protection, have we degenerated to the point where our own inbuilt problem solving abilities just don't function an more?

 

As this forum is predominately filled with enthusiasts who claim to know what they are doing, I have seen many enthusiasts try to slam a GWR snap lock door with the latch in the horizontal position and cause damage to the vehicle. I, and Im sure many others have witnessed passengers pressing the rubber bump stops expecting the door to open for them. We have to realise that the national network is becoming very sanitised and automated, in which passengers dont even have to think where to stand, whether or not the door will open, multimedia displays with constant revolving messages about what the next station is.

One way to get customers more aware of the idiosyncratic nature of heritage carriages is make it more interactive. Have an interactive display/ video available. Improved and knowledgeable station/ train staff that can demonstrate to passengers how to.

Locking carriage doors on the SVR has been ruled out due to the varied lengths of platforms and the different carriages that will be platformed at each station. There is also a customer relations point to note. Take 3930, Churchward toplight all 3rd. 16 doors. Does a family that have settled into a compartment want a TTI squeezing through to open the door? Before people jump down my throat about it saying "well they would do it from the platform side". Its human nature to take the shortest and perceived easier route.

 

Indeed so. Using staff engaged in talking at people through loudspeakers actually to help passengers with unfamiliar types of door locks and windows would be far more helpful as well as kinder.

 

My Guard and I treated the situation with a degree of levity - precisely to ensure the 'Tesco group' were not embarrassed. They joined in the banter and a good time seemed to be had by all. To me, the face-to-face personal touch can be adapted at the time needed. Incidentally, it had to be the train crew on that occasion as there was no volunteer platform staff available.
I'm not sure a disembodied public address voice would have been 'kinder'. As for being 'far more helpful' - I'm not sure I'd necessarily agree with you on that point either. Passengers arrive all the time so how does the PA announcer know when they need advice on using slam doors? They might be just pausing to have a chat (or waiting for others in their party getting tickets) but know already how slam doors work?

 

I have on several occations seen platform staff open the doors, for passengers to get on, and off, when they look like they are having difficulty, no need for an loud hailer, some people might be embarrassed if told how to open a door, and everyone else can see and hear it, where as a polite smiling member of station staff, embarrasses no one, the answer isn't to give out leaflets, etc, stickers on coach windows or sides, its to have attentive station staff, who can react with the public, most preserved railways i have visited will have some station staff, of course, theres always a need for more, and that goes for every department,