South Devon Explorer 27/05/23

Received my e.ticket Bahamas appears to be taking ten on to Plymouth does this suggest some rear end assistants? I've always assumed only 8Ps can take ten over the banks .

 

I hope there's been a mistake with the ticket letter for Saturday's South Devon Explorer.
The consist is the same as we had on the ACE yesterday,
3 Premier;
2 First;
Buffet/Standard;
Standard TSO;
Standard/Brake;
plus the Restaurant Car.
That's 9 without the POB.
After Bahamas' superb run yesterday we were wondering if 45596 might be allowed to take 8+POB as she did on a Duchy the other year. But 9+POB?? No chance.
Anyone heard anything on the grapevine?

 

Aren't the trains starting from Woking 'Top and Tailed?' RTT says there is a 12 minute reversal in the schedule at Westbury but there's no separate LE move listed on RTT. Guessing the 12 minutes is for the driver to shut off the leading Class 47, walk down the platform to fire up the tailgunner which becomes the front one for the onward journey to Bristol.

https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U55180/2023-05-27/detailed

The train runs in to P15 at the Meads at 0933. The diesel comes off and stays in the loop until 1018 when it leaves as the 0Z39 LE move to Taunton.

At Plymouth, there's this:
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U55184/2023-05-27/detailed
I read that as the diesel on the rear coming off and running around the train.

Bahamas' move is here:
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U55179/2023-05-27/detailed

Depressingly it looks like the Explorer is going to be shoved over the banks.

 

Commercial reality i guess R T C. Would have been aware some time ago that the Duchess was not going to be available so could have restricted ticket sales for 9 coach train but it must be hard to survive without being pragmatic i guess​

 

Yes that extra coach is the profit but Saturday gives hope for the future for some RTC trains which means I for one will continue to book with them

 

As Big Al has said many times, RTC should be saying there will be an assisting diesel. In this case a lot of serious assisting. We only booked it when Bahamas was advertised as the locomotive.

The letter says
We will be steam hauled by Jubilee Class No.45596 Bahamas from Bristol to Plymouth on the
outward journey and from Plymouth to Taunton on the return journey. We shall be diesel hauled
from Woking to Bristol and from Taunton to Woking as advertised.

There will be a lot of annoyed passengers turning up on Saturday for a seriously diesel assisted run over the banks. We spoke to quite a number of folk who booked it when Bahamas was advertised as the locomotive. Most of the talk was about whether we'd have 8 or 9. Loading to 10 with a box assisting didn't come up. Odd the price point for standard is £130 but the Duchy £134.

I'll confirm the consist and and diesel thing with Kelly tomorrow but with those timings on RTT can't see it being anything else.

 

Happy days. Unless something extraordinary happens it's going to be a heavily banked 10 coach train.

Might not get you anywhere but if you booked AFTER the locomotive was changed from 6233 to 45596 and you don't want to travel on the top and tailed train, I suggest ringing the office and as politely as you can request a transfer to another train, a credit note or your money back. I didn't book until the 13th March, solely because it was 45596 and our group wanted to do the banks with the Jubilee. The change of locomotive was known about a long time ago, as was the knowledge that 45596 would be unable to haul the planned 9+POB over the banks unassisted. Ask when they made the decision not to reduce the load as it must have been taken as soon as they knew 6233 wasn't available. Obviously WCR didn't offer BIL, their only Class 8, as an alternative.

Nothing ventured. Be interested to know what they say. Still trying to get my booking transferred.

Tell you what was very strange. We talked to a few BLS folk and none of them mentioned the assisting diesel when we said how much we were looking forward to 'doing the banks' next week after the excellent ACE on Saturday.

 

If the Duchess is unavailable for her planned runs on the Duchy in July & August, could we see a similar operation to this coming Saturday unless another 8P is available, or will the load be reduced on those trains?

 

I appreciate you probably spend more money with RTC than most (or anybody else) but I am unclear what you expect them to do.
Run at a loss so a few of us can get an unassisted run?
Remove a coach and upset 64 or 42 people as the train is shown as full. How would you determine who these unlucky ones should be?
Cancel the whole train and refund everyone?
Where is this replacement pacific going to come from, especially as BIL according to the posts on here has wheel flats?

The "new" alignment of the market into "camps" limits the options somewhat.

 

JohnB may be able to confirm, but I doubt every support crew member is kept up to date with the operational aspects of the tours, and from the support crews I’ve spoken to, there’s a fair number whose sole interest is with the loco presentation/running so maybe you were chatting with one of them.

I’ve brought up the question of diesels on the back a few times now, and I am yet to run into one who cares at all about there being one on the back or not. All so far are just happy to have their engine out running on the big railway no matter the caveats. Not like it changes their start/finish times for prep and disposal!

 

You wouldn't think 2 years or so ago we were all locked up at home.

WC is doing what's correct and I expect the BLS, don't want their loco put at risk of harm.

Given the lack of mainline locos currently,the price of coal etc we are lucky it's even running at all.

 

After the news about this Saturday, I wonder what the score is with the Royal Duchy on 10th September with 45596? I was about to book on the assumption it would be unassisted steam over the banks. I think I'll hold off unless there is some assurance that the intention is to operate the Royal Duchy with a load not requiring such assistance.

Nick M.

 

That is a shame, I think. Postings by representatives of tour operators always seem to be very well-received on NatPres. As an example, Michael Whitehouse of Vintage Trains who started posting updates earlier this year, has received 173 ‘Likes’ for 18 postings.

If anyone from RTC happens to read this, I would urge them to reconsider their decision not to engage with the forum.

Nick M.

 

Unfortunately, steam over the Devon Banks is always going to be a limited load, therefore an 8P is what allows the train to be viable within an acceptable price point for Joe Public (who mainly fills these trains). If it was planned for an 8P, then that is what it was priced at.
By dropping a carriage (or 2) to bring it within the haulage capacity of a 6P, you would need to raise prices on a trip (that already has a premium added to it) to make it viable. As far as I know, only Flying Scotsman has the selling power to overcome this.

 

Look, the issues I have with the way this train has been managed is that RTC advertised the train as being Steam Hauled after they knew the Duchess wouldn't be available and after WRC had arranged for 45596 to be the replacement locomotive. Both WRC and RTC knew that 45596 wouldn't be able to take 9+POB over the banks so I would have expected there to have been a statement on the website telling passengers who booked AFTER 45596 was the allocated locomotive that due to the lack of a Class 8 locomotive and their wish to take 9+POB over the banks, the train would have an assisting diesel on the rear. Do you think I would have booked a 4+4 in standard under those circumstances? I don't believe the addition of the diesel is covered by their Ts & Cs as it was a deliberate choice. The train should have been honestly advertised as being top and tailed by 45596 and a Class 47. Simples.

At least as mentioned above VT tell you when there'll be a diesel on theirs which we have experience of ruining trains by assisting, so despite chucking thousands at the CBS we don't travel with them anymore; Saphos say the diesel may assist and we've watched their diesel do its thing on the banks; same with Steam Dreams, so we don't travel with them.

In no way do I want to unduly criticise RTC as they're the only place we can go for proper steam on the mainline at the moment. Pity BIL wasn't fit to come down to play with the banks. Would have been good as it failed to show on GBXV.

Such is life. At least there's a good Stage of the Giro to watch.

 

Alan, I'm not surprised that you cannot lay your hands on such a directive because it does not exist ( except, possibly, in your mind). A train, top and tailed with a steam and a diesel loco, has been a perfectly acceptably method of working over many years. The only reason that it was rarely done "in the old days" was because there was no need for it on the railway of sixty years ago. Now in the 21st century it is entirely normal to operate a charter train in this way even, if it is not to your liking.

Peter

 

I know what you are talking about but the fact remains that what you are saying is incorrect, regardless of the purpose of having a diesel on the rear. I'm only correcting misinformation here.

Peter