Dalesman 2023

Interesting comparison Graham. As Peter (@30567) posts, railhead conditions must have played a part, on Thursday we must have had near perfect conditions. Had conditions been better on Saturday I'm sure that David Blair would have applied more power.

Looking in a bit more detail; the Dalesman run (13) was quicker between Carlisle and Appleby, but slower from Appleby to Ais Gill. Perhaps to be expected; in round figures the climb from Carlisle to Appleby is 450ft (in 31miles) and that from Appleby to Ais Gill 650ft in 17miles. Before Appleby are some downhill stretches where the heavy train can gain some momentum whilst after Appleby it is all "against the collar" (with mile after mile of 1/100). If the heavier train was going to be quicker anywhere it would be on the first leg, had David been confident in putting more power down then a lighter (11 coach train) would always be faster. On the second leg your comparison clearly shows that the stretches of 1/100 caused a greater loss in speed with the heavier train (as would be expected).

Coal is another consideration and the current coal from Kazakhstan has a lower calorific value than the Russian coal that it replaced. Factor in variability of quality in different batches then ultimately performance can suffer. However, BIL with a large grate area should be able to cope better than a smaller loco like a Jub.

 

Interestingly though, both Bahamas and Galatea have put in some brilliant performances in the south of the country recently, are they using the same Kazakh coal?

 

With Leander booked to follow suit, Sapperton Bank in particular playing host to all three in the last year.

 

Wondering if that might be postponed with the RMT strike? Worcester Shrub would be shut with the staff on strike. Caused the VT Lickey trips to be cancelled as the station is locked.

 

That's why we love proper steam hauled trains. So many variables that can't really be quantified. Fun for the discussions that follow. Literally every run is different.

 

There’s more to it than the size or shape of the firebox, locomotives draughting was designed for using the railway’s normal coal supply. As an example the GW used soft Welsh steam coal and their engines seemed to get constipated on anything else, I remember the first run of the King over the S&C in preservation ended up with it having to stop through shortage of steam, in those days they were probably using Yorkshire hards up there. Last year when Clan Line worked the ACE the fireman had difficulty in getting the boiler pressure above the 200 mark when I was on it from Woking to Basingstoke with the front of the fire looking dead. It was latter discovered that the type of coal needed a gale blowing up through the fire and I think it was later worked with both dampers wide open. On the last Weymouth trip with Bahamas I heard the driver remark that the coal gave off a lot of heat and burnt very quickly making it hard to control the boiler, there was certainly a lot of blowing off during the run.
With coal supplies now from far flung places and of variable quality and calorific value it’s just another challenge in running steam in the 21st century.

 

Expanding on the last paragraph of my earlier post #161, I had already done some “digging” – sorry just a pun of “mine” (stop it Oswald, now!)

Following the embargo on Russian imports Europe turned to Kazakhstan for their coal. Most Kaz coal is of low calorific value and has a very high ash content and is not considered suitable as steam coal. However, Kaz coal from the Shubarkol Basin has a higher calorific value and lower ash content and is acceptable as steam coal. The calorific value of this Kaz coal is 10% lower than Russian and a whopping 20% lower than Blidworth. [Blidworth coal was often used for testing purposes by BR and considered good]. I understand that WCRC have been using Kaz coal for at least a year.

What does it mean in practice. Go back in time to when the Blue Riband record times were set. Very experienced crews driving locos to their limit, a big fire, a full boiler, needle on the line and raising all the steam that could be raised and sending it all to the cylinders. Fast forward and do the same using Kaz coal, every shovelful of coal gives you 20% less energy, even if you could shovel coal 20% faster at this very edge of ultimate performance it is almost certain that the loco wouldn’t be able to burn it. The maximum available power output from even these beasts of the locomotive world must be reduced and Graham’s much sought after exceptional run is further away than ever.

To raise the same amount of steam, the fireman’s 10 shovelfuls of “Blidworth” coal became 11 of Russian and is now 12 of Kaz coal. Present day running usually allows class 8 locos to operate well within their capabilities, but smaller locos are often called on to operate much closer to their designed maximum outputs. If you want an extra effort, (from a loco that is already burning coal at a higher rate than its original design spec) then an increased firing rate must be more readily achievable with a MN, working comfortably within capacity with its 48sq ft grate (and draughting to match) than with an a Jub that is already working relatively much harder and with a grate of only 31sq ft.

Add in that coal is not a homogenous product and some batches will be better/worse than others.

I accept that there are many factors (as @Johnb rightly points out) that contribute to how a coal behaves in a firebox and I am routinely in awe of the skills of those on the footplate who seemingly adapt to everything that comes their way.

 

I feel sorry for those who no longer travel on steam specials because, "You can't put your head out of the window." or "There's always a diesel on the back." Well, agreed you can't put your head out of the window but, there's not always a diesel on the back. On Thursday we had 35018 "giving it plenty" with a 13 coach train both ways over the S&C, sunny day and no diesel!



Why stick your head out of the window when the outside keeps coming in. (Inside the third coach, just north of Horton in Ribblesdale on northbound run)




The view through the window was pretty good too. (Dentdale - northbound run)

 

I don't know what the CV is for this rubbish they are bringing in now from the east, but we used to mine coal locally to me in Northumberland with an average heat content insitu of about 27 to 27.5 Gigajoules to the tonne, sometimes more, sometimes less, but that was the general range. It rings a bell that the standard 'tonne' as required by our local power stations was 25 Gj /tonne, so there was some leeway for poorer seams blended into the mix, or the odd bit of shale finding its way in, so reducing the CV and increasing the ash over insitu seam quality. The price received for the product was varied up or down depending on the variance from the 25, but they certainly didn't like it going low. That was after crushing into the powder that they liked to burn, rather than the lumps needed for a steam loco, but that gives an idea of the CV of UK standards of steam coal for generation. Coal seams vary in CV, hardness, friability, ash, volatiles, moisture, caking, etc and as has been said the product used in Wales was different to that used in Yorkshire, but in general the market chose what went where.

Do you have an idea of the CV of the Kazak stuff for comparison?

 

The figure quoted for Kaz coal is 5600kcal/kg which I think converts to 23.4 GJ/t - and that's the best in their country. Australian coal is a smidge lower. Baltimore coal from the US has a CV about the same as the old Blidworth but is very expensive. If it were still available, providing that it met all the other necessary criteria, the preserved steam industry would love your coal which CV-wise is mid way between Russian and Blidworth.

 

21st September 21

 

Well done lol

 

45627 at Sheriff Brow.

 

Instead of the glorious dawn of the past few days, this morning was grey and murky. The cloud was thick enough to give some light rain, not much, but enough to deter Mrs W from walking down to the local Bargain Booze - not for strong drink, I hasten to add. Mrs W had decided not to come along on today's escapade and not even the offer of a bacon butty at Slaidburn would entice her from her lair. By the time I left home, around 10.15, the rain had stopped but the haze and murk remained. First stop Hellifield to see what 10A had sent for today's train. When I arrived the WCRC car park was full except that there was just enough room to tuck the car half on the gravel and half on some grass at the edge. It was warm, humid and with little or no breeze. Now, at least, the sun looked as though it was trying to shine, by the time the train was due, maybe . . . ?

I wandered up onto the platform and round to where Galatea et al sat simmering in the goods loop behind the station. The pipe was in the tender and after a few minutes water began to cascade down from the footplate. Chris Cubbitt busied himself on the footplate before taking up his position in the driver's seat. Chris openly admits that he has a different approach on northbound S&C trains to the other WCRC drivers. Most (all?) of the other drivers open up the loco after leaving Hellifield in an attempt as much speed as possible by Settle Jn. As they approach Settle Jn distant signal, if it's clear they carry on and if it's at danger they shut off and brake. Chris takes it much easier away from Hellifield and only when he sights the signal at clear does he apply power. This gives a slower speed at Settle Jn and consequently a slower climb.

As I left the car park I was undecided where I should go - no need for that sort of language! I chose . . . the over bridge on the private road just past the layby on the road into Settle. Unfortunately, the layby was choc a bloc, I turned up the road (Lodge Road) but the one and only parking space was already occupied. I managed to find a spot where the road was wider and parked there. Along to the bridge, a well-know and oft-used location. The sun was trying break through but without success; the murk remained and it was impossible to see the full length of the straight. I ate my sandwich and my Frusli bar and got ready.

A few checks on RTT eventually revealed that the train had left the loop (2E). There was too much background traffic noise to pick-up any "loco sounds" until in the far distance, a Stanier hooter. Unable to see far enough and unable to hear clearly enough Oswald just had to wait. Then the 3-cylinder beat, taking its time but growing louder, then a sight of the loco. Not much visible exhaust just a grey haze, a bit of steam from low down - surely not a draincock! Let's say, for the sake of argument, it was 45627 that headed towards us (I had been joined by a last-minute photographer), she was working nicely but not the full Jubilee roar. She passed under the bridge and on up the hill before curving to the right and was gone. 23C, 1E & 43mph. Driving home the sun eventually broke through and the temperature climbed to 25C.

 

45627 Sierra Leone on todays Dalesman from York. locations are Wennington and Helwith Bridge

 

BBC Weather forecasting sun was not accurate!

 

To compliment Harry's video 45699 is seen at KS .

 

Return Dalesman, 07.09.23.

 

Whatever happened to recent blue skies? back to normal on the S+C today as Jubilee No. 45627 'Sierra Leone' works the northbound 'Dalesman' over Ribblehead viaduct and on to Carlisle with Chris Cubitt driving, Matt Southwell firing and Roly
Parker Guard



No. 45627 'Sierra Leone' approaching Ribblehead Station with the return 'Dalesman' to York with Mick Kelly driving, Martyn Soames firing and Roly Parker Guard