Lynton and Barnstaple - Operations and Development

Quite possibly, but that is what the Trust Notices section on the website is for. Not sure about the minutes themselves as its a bit of a mine field legally as I see it, but perhaps more info generally can be published in that section.

 

My comment was less about one specific document type, and more about the underlying culture.

I suspect that we all tend to look at heritage railways through a particular prism; and I make no apologies for the fact that my particular prism often focuses particularly on governance and communication.

Tom

 

Quite right, because without these at best things will be slowed if not outright stopped.

 

Depends a bit on definition. There is a difference between the general "public" and the members of the organisation. In my view, and experience, Board minutes should always be available to members of a Trust or Society, subject, of course, to the removal of sensitive items such as personnel issues or current commercial negotiations. To say "available" does not necessarily mean they need to be sent to all members but they should not be kept from members' enquiries. It is certainly advisable to make a synopsis of the minutes for the newsletter or magazine to keep members informed of important decisions.

 

The Trust Notices section is open to the general public so should not be used to convey information which, whilst important for the members, is better not released publicly.

 

You catch me up at this unearthly hour due to being bitten by a damn gnat and the itch driving me crazy hehe

I once knew an Internet security guy, worked for Barclays. He said to me no matter where you put information on the Internet, always assume it is being published to the world wide public, even behind a firewall, login or pay wall.

Its easy to join forums, make accounts, make false accounts, get others to join, copy and paste and so on.

The railway is right to not put too much more in the way of information anywhere on the Internet, even just for members to see, other than what it would wish the public to see.

 

And this opens what is an essential issue for members. Since the new website, which no longer has a members section, there has been no medium for conveying information from Trustees to members apart from the occasional newsletter. The Trustees have taken communication back to the nineteenth century! If this doesn't broadcast 'secrecy, secrecy, secrecy!' then I cannot imagine what would. It's unsurprising that much of the discussion here concerns lack of openness (i.e. secrecy) and with-holding information from members. I shall finish by stating that some heritage railways regularly send e-mails to members...

 

I recently read an article by Danny Cipriani (a fleeting one-time England fly-half) in BBC Sport On-line (21 Aug 2023) entitled "English Rugby is 'digging its own Grave' " and that it is 'being led by people who do not understand the art of the game'. Bear with me here.

He continues 'if you... think and (do) not feel, you're always going to be one step behind'. He says coaching [which one might interpret more broadly as leadership] is all 'how tough can I show the world I am'. Bravado [if you will].

(England need) 'open discussions where coaches welcome new ideas that feel uncomfortable to them because it's the only way it will grow'.
Coaches should 'build confidence in players' decision making' rather than just teaching them to conform to a plan. He thinks they should have a vision that players want to follow 'or have qualities that you admire' such as 'knowledge, compassion, emotional intelligence, love, honesty and humility'.

I offer this without further comment... (except that I doubt whether we will see this manifesting down Woody Bay way or Paris 2023 in the Rugby World Cup either.)

 

While no one is expecting the Trust to publish every discussion of every meeting, a redacted version of the minutes could be made available.
Would it even matter if that document somehow became public?
What would be in it that a) would interest the public enough to try to get a copy and b) would do any damage to the railway?
I see no reason for the cloak and dagger secrecy, this is a narrow gauge railway in Devon, not MI5!!

 

Precisely. And it’s perfectly possible to redact those sections that are genuinely confidential.

As a school governor or PCC member, the minutes of my meetings are public documents. There are some items - for example where we discuss commercial quotations - that are treated as “reserved business”, and withheld from the publicly available record. I find it quite a useful experience feeling that I’m in a goldfish bowl when making decisions.


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I was merely pointing out that although information may be behind a login in many ways it's as good as public. You cannot put anywhere on the Internet information that is better not released to the public.

If redacted minutes are published, I believe you will find any information quite limited anyway, the minutes would not hold details of discussions, only what was discussed, and the result of any vote. Planning would probably be redacted under commercial sensitivity, and any items and details of individuals such as volunteers etc would be too under GDPR/Data Protection.

Again, before anyone jumps down my throat, I am only relaying info that can easily be found on google.

 

I always regard Google (other search engines available) a dangerous source, without first verifying the standing of the links quoted. That's not just about whether they're authoritative, but also their position.

My experience of being in professionally minuted meetings is that the level of redaction is quite low, and that they often act as verbatim minutes, detailing not just what was said and decided, but by whom. Discussion of individuals is very rare - as a board, if we descend into discussion of individual employees/volunteers we are undermining management processes (including, where applicable, performance management and disciplinary processes) and distracting ourselves from the things that we are actually there to focus on as trustees and directors, having appointed professionals to manage the organisation.

That's very relevant to the L&B, where there is a company to manage the operational railway, with a general manager appointed to manage it day to day.

 

Yes I use Google for information but I'm also quite picky on the info I read and understand quite clearly the pit falls of Google. I always double check sources and the info they hold if I can.

Personally I would like to see the info in the Trust Notices increased by quite some margin, we don't need a members section.we have the Members newsletter for that. But I also realise that to increase that info is using volunteer time.

This is one of the problems, there are many demands being made, but it has to be remembered that they are all volunteers, that includes all of the trustees.

 

Which is why I was surprised you presented it so authoritatively - as what you relay is very different from my experience in much more regulated environments.

Organisations have choices about how open they are, and how they document their decisions - the law puts quite broad limits.

Meanwhile, and tangentially related, I notice that a Charities Commission investigation into another charity has been widely reported this morning, in which the poor quality of minutes were specifically commented on.

 

Absolutely. The distinction between directors/trustees and managers. It's quite possible for someone to fill more than one role, however discipline is required.

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Dave Old Chap, When you say 'we don't need a members section.we have the Members newsletter for that', you are speaking for yourself and perhaps your view might be coloured by your closeness to Trustees?? For myself, I would like a members section, for as I recently mentioned, occasional members newsletters are a nineteenth-century method of communication: communication at some distance too from events. Surely we can expect better from our Trustees? And why don't we have a members e-mail??

 

My post is not coloured by any closeness to the trustees at all.

The Members Newsletter is one part of the incentive to join the L&B, as a member you receive a Newsletter which no one else receives unless you are a member. Alongside this is the magazine.

If you put what is in the Newsletter online, even behind a login, you can be sure someone somewhere will copy/paste it and out into the www.

Tbh quite often we discuss items in the Newsletter at East Group during a break, the hard copy Newsletter often being on the mess room table. Many of our volunteers don't use the Internet, I know of at least 4 with no personal email address in our group, their correspondence goes to a partner or family member.

For those members the hard copy newsletter is all they see.

Yes we need to be Internet savvy, but sometimes the old fashioned way has to be preserved for incentive, and recognition of a not insignificant number of our members who do not use the Internet.

There is a call perhaps of publishing past issues, say over 2 issues ago, but the current and maybe previous issue, no.

 

You raise two issues - fairness to all members, and security. Taking security first, I'm really struggling with the idea that everything should be secret unless it's officially released. From experience elsewhere, treating everything under a blanket of secrecy undermines the specialness of what does need to be kept confidential, and creates a market for rumours. Specifcially on the newsletter, I can't recall what I've seen in the newsletter that couldn't have been shared publicly on the day of issue - doubly so if what was said at Lynton about opponents belonging to the Trust is true. Once it lands in people's postboxes, it can very easily be copied and pasted online (or even typed out) - indeed, there are ways in which an electronic file can be made rather more secure than hard copy.

The question of fairness is difficult; for every one of the members you refer to, there will be another who is disenfranchised by the time the post takes to get to them (which also adds cost to the Trust for sending stuff by airmail). However, I suggest that the focus needs to be on how interest is expanded. One organisation I'm a member of does this by posting items 1st class, and then releasing them online when they should have been received by UK letter post; other options exist.

 

This feature has recently been added to the L&B website - I believe around June when the Trust Notices were introduced.
https://www.lynton-rail.co.uk/trust-newsletter.

EA has been doing this for several years: https://www.exmoor-associates.co.uk/trackbed-trails/ likewise YVT: https://yvt.org.uk/viaduct-views/

 

Yes I agree nothing much in the newsletter is bombshell material, but it's the incentive, and not facilitating that copy/paste by releasing electronic versions too early.
To be currently "in the know" the hard copy is something everyone gets as a member and there are some who I dare say collect them and have every issue from the very first.

What Biker has posted above is about what I would say is best for past issues of Newsletters, 1 or 2 issues back on a rolling publication.