Saphos Trains

Yes agreed. That's where I feel we are missing a strong independent third force such as DB/UKRT in former times. Someone who would be in a position to spot hire for a special London to York trip behind SNG or 60532. Perhaps that model has been priced out now, times and markets have changed and the integrated model has taken over. Still, very grateful for what we have, amazing really.

 

It's not just your problem!

 

To say "Saphos are not worth supporting" seems a bit extreme. Nearly all their trains are fully booked so there are plenty of people who think they are worth supporting and are happy to pay a great deal to do so. However it depends what you want. If pure, unassisted steam and locomotive timing is your thing they are obviously not the company for you. However if you want a good day out being pampered and the added bonus of seeing and maybe hearing a steam locomotive then that's different. I am going to take my first trip with Saphos this week. My wife and I are going primarily for the wining and dining experience and we are looking forward to it. I have no expectations about steam locomotive performance whatsoever!

 

The hard core, performance orientated, steam enthusiast is a very small part of the market. Fortunately, there is a much bigger market for 'wine & dine' - that means these locomotives are still being restored 55 years after the 'official' end of steam. That has to be a good thing.
I would travel with Saphos, but it is price not performance, that prevents me - however I'm sure if you can afford it you will get a very enjoyable day out.

 

Has anybody actually asked him? Pathfinder hired his 45231 for a Central Wales tour about 3 years ago, but don't think anyone else has since.

 

60007 is not an LSL engine, it’s owned by the A4 Society that has a working arrangement with LSL, it has worked with West Coast so I assume it is still registered with them. At present it seems to be getting enough mainline work with LSL, don’t forget that as a volunteer run organisation there is a limit to what they can do. West Coast have their own fleet of locos so won’t be paying a steaming fee to a third party unless it’s a special request by a tour operator, it’s why Bahamas has to work the summer season so far from home. Belmond is a totally different type of operation and it’s down to them to decide what they do regarding haulage of their trains.

 

Saphos First Class is on par, if not cheaper than some trips, with RTC.

 

Can't afford RTC first class either!

 

The sort of people who pay £700 on a day out ( I doubt if many go on their own) are those that wouldn’t be bothered to look at the value, the same people who would buy petrol on a motorway rather than drive 200 yards off at the next junction and get it at a supermarket for 25p a litre less. Selling raffle tickets on the RTC Bahamas hauled trains it’s noticeable that the tenners all come out in premier dining not the rest of the train.

 

It is value for money though I would say, and was £360 in 2022 when I did a Fellsman, it came down in line with diesel offerings for this year. The cost includes a half bottle of wine too, I think it is £20 per head you are allowed before a supplement is payable to upgrade, and champagne reception on the return (first is sparkling wine on return). Many restaurants the main course these days is at least £16, and it is five courses plus truffles etc gift they hand out at the end. They will be using higher quality produce than your Mitchell and Butler establishments too - I say this as somebody who loves a Toby Carvery!

Bottled water, supporting the RNLI, is free in Premier. I believe it is a payable extra in First - somebody may correct me.

Trust me once you do Saphos Premier, the thought of doing First is sickening.

 

Even Pathfinder are charging £129 usually for standard these days.

 

Yep, which is why I only do 2 or 3 trips a year now, instead of 5 or 6.

 

Yes but that does not make the offering expensive per se.
Two examples
If I need a taxi to and from our local Hospital (Poole) a 40 mile round trip from here, on the "deal" they have with their local taxi company that will be £98 sir. (Of course @martin1656 may find the fact the Hospital has such a deal unacceptable, as it may smack of corruption).
For the first DCE I had lunch with two of the stewards in Weymouth. All we could find vaguely empty was the Weatherpersons. A pint of the lowest percentage beer and a jacket potato and baked beans almost £10 in a Spoons?
On those two all that rail travel for £129 seems a good deal to me.

 

I don't doubt your calculations, but it is expensive if you dont have the spare £129!!

The first Saphos trip I did was £65, a run to Kingswear. That was £130 for the two of us. The same trip is now more than double.
Put simply my income hasn't doubled and plenty of my other bills have. Basic maths indicate that my railtours budget is now worth half what is was.
Last week I had a trip out on the SVR with my daughter. Using a free return trip voucher and my membership card it cost just over £20 for the two of us. With food as well probably £40 all in for 2 steam and 2 diesel. Wasn't silver service, but we had a great time and returned home covered in soot too.. (the trains were full of similarly minded families!).
I will keep supporting mainline steam as long it continues to run because it won't be around for ever and it is the ultimate, but put simply my depleted finances dictate where my vastly reduced disposable income is spent!

 

I accept everyone has to go with what they have for discretionary spend.
Although of course Saphos were seriously discounting ( as a company or individual with deep pockets can afford to do) to break into the market, so the real question is what would the "real" price for them have been at that time. I suspect nearer to £100 than £65.

 

No doubt they were discounting, very successfully too. But it wasn't long ago the RTC CMEs were around the £70 - £80 mark too. I am not complaining, costs for running steam locos have risen dramatically, but even at the lower standard fares, it has become an exclusive hobby.
Perhaps in the future if I am able to only do 1 or 2 a year, the 1st class fare may look a bit more attractive - as it really will be a special occasion event and you would expect a bit more luxury for the price.
£130 for a Mk 1 seat (which in some cases is a lot poorer than a heritage railway TSO), is a huge amount of money. I suspect this is Saphos' thinking too.

 

To right, i would have made you use the local bus, at your own cost, To plebs like me, rail tours are an luxury i can't afford, but i don't begrudge people the enjoyment they pay vast sums to attain, but then leisure always has had its high end offerings, like Concorde, and it pays the bills, no customers no industry.