The Gwili Railway thread

Of course, if the "processes and procedures" ( if there were any) had been adequate in the first place the Gwili wouldn't have had its day in court and avoided a lot of unpleasantness and expense. The regulations, advice and threats from the HSE have been around for long enough. Nineteenth century working practices are no longer acceptable.

 

@brennan you can be assured that this message was understood some time ago in West Wales. However @Dead Sheep is correct, anecdotally there have been numerous incidents in recent times across the sector which as stated above is a specific concern/focus for the ORR.

regards

Matt

 

It is a shame but I am sure the railway will put it right moving forward.

It shouldn't take the gloss away from what has been an epic 2 years for the railway with the establishment of Abergwili, the new carraige shed and some very exciting prospects ahead.

 

Unfortunately, there appears to be a cultural issue across the industry and further afield that views rules and regulations as an inconvenience and an obstruction to people, who want to do what they want. I do not wish to single out the Gwili here as I don't know the details of the incident, but witness some of the comments on here to West Coast's recent brush with the HSE, as evidence of the issue.
Until people start viewing HSE guidance as something to help them and keep them safe (rather than inconvenience), then we will continue to have problems I'm afraid. It is simply not acceptable in this day and age for people to turn up, volunteer and then go home injured or even worse not at all. There are enough method statements and best practice guidance documents around now to cover even the most basic tasks. If someone is uncertain then a fresh risk assessment & method statement should always be produced.
Also, H&S is everyone's responsibility, so if you do see something unsafe please don't stand by, say something!

 

To paraphrase Stewart Lee:

 

I didn't realise Stewart Lee read this forum

In reality, this is a problem not just isolated to the Heritage Railway world, we are currently rolling out a basic level Working at height course for one of out largest customers- the industry they work within has seen a handful of high profile working at height incidents in recent years and *rightly* they are keen to give everyone a basic level to understand and manage the risks- and most importantly know when to say the work system in place is not suitable or safe.

Regards

Chris

Chris

 

Hi Chris, this wasn't a dig at Gwilli but an all to pervasive attitude to H&S within the sector. Which manifests as hissy fits online and occasionally hubristically as injuries on railways.

 

And that fall the chairman of the LNER Carriage Association was horrific too...

 

The problem is that the vast majority of volunteers have never worked in industry and are not aware of the dangers of working at height.
You will also see photos on Nat Pres showing people not wearing eye protection, hard hats etc. Protection from silica dust (cement powder etc.) is another danger many people are not aware of.
Be sure that the O.R.R. are monitoring sites such as this !

Bob.

 

A lot of Health and Safety is common sense.. unfortunately common sense disappears when , we,ll just do it this way once because it not worth it for one time and it won't happen to me, plus there seems to be a lot of it won't happen to me attitude. Then also society is much more litigation prone which means that when something happens either we or the family sue for compensation. Your only defence against is to have procedures and training in place and you need to demonstrate thatbthey are effectively in place via audits. The problem is that due to our litigation liking society you have to often go a bit further than just common sense to protect yourself. Often it is th9osevwhommoagn about we didn't have these restrictions in the old days and something happens are the ones likely to sue.

 

Unfortunately "common sense" isn't really very common.

The reality is that preservation world is neither money, or time rich.
This situation in industry often translates into safety being a lesser concern than getting the job done in a timely manner.

I have to try and battle this *every day* with delivering H&S training and vehicle operator training.

A good H&S person should identify the risks and find pragmatic solutions to mitigate- if they are really good then a process change may actually make the job more efficient, as well as alleviating the primary safety concerns.

Chris

 

Which is why the H&S at work act puts the onus on the employer or responsible person to ensure those completing a task have the skills, tools and if necessary PPE, to complete a task safely.
In the building industry, everyone on site should have an induction that is appropriate to their area of work. They may also get regular tool box talks that are relevant to the task in hand. At that point they should be made aware of the hazards identified (which maybe site or task specific) , safety equipment required and procedures to complete tasks safely. To protect themselves, an employer will get people to sign to say they have received the induction and safety talks.
I can't see this being any different on a Heritage Railway - it would be a brave (or foolish) person who tries to argue these measures are not necessary. I'm afraid 'I didn't know', is no longer acceptable and wouldn't cut it in court.
Completing Risk Assessments may seem boring, but they ensure that those in charge think about potential hazards before they happen and these can be communicated to everyone.

 

Was there actually ever a time when that wasn't the case? The early railway companies paid out substantial sums in compensation after accidents.

 

There was a time when people took a bit more responsibility for their actions.

 

H&S Briefings content, tool box talks and knowledge of 'how to do' risk assessments seem to be very rarely seen in heritage railways. Some of the larger sites may have a nominated H&S Responsible Person but I doubt if many of the smaller ones have. Unless someone who volunteers there has experience somewhere in the engineering sector where H&S compliance is a must or in the education sector delivering H&S training I can see the fill impact and need for H&S just not being understood because no one knows about it.
Things like ladder registers (or even marking up your ladders to identify them), fence registers etc, etc are not glamorous, could be seen as a PITA when you want to do railway stuff but are essential to show a Duty of Care. How many railways out there do have a fence register? (Does yours?) How many can show the last time their fencing was inspected and found secure? It would be essential evidence if someone wandered onto railway property and was injured somehow. If the fencing was found to have been damaged, allowing the incursion without any restraint and the railway had not routinely inspected it (usually at least annually) then where is the railways defence that it actually has carried out its Duty of Care?
The HSE website gives lots of useful help about risk assessments, tool box talk subjects etc, etc. Its a good place to start.
And a final word of warning. If you are asked to be the H&S person for the railway "...just because we need to put a name in the box..." and you are not up to speed with current H&S legislation... Don't do it! If things go wrong and what you should have done has not been done your neck will be the first on the block - closely followed by the rest of the senior management.
And yes, I know there are people out there who just don't care and others who's egos prevent them for ever thinking someone might know more than they do. They are putting the whole of the railway at risk. If you know of one on your railway always make sure your back is covered....

 

I have more than once watched scaffolders acting very recklessly.

 

I see lot less of that now, Scaffolding is becoming increasingly scarce on the sites I work on because there are easier, cheaper and safer/equally safe ways to do the job in a lot of cases.

Scaffolders coming on site and acting the goat/stringing out the job is a lot less common now- and is usually resolved by;

"Well if you are unable to do the job safely and in a timely manner, we will just get a MEWP or the ropes access guys to do it"

Chris

 

It was indeed, but I don't think it was a "working at height" accident

 

Is any information about this in the public domain? I heard the tragic news but not what actually happened.

 

Can I politely suggest that the discussion is now straying away from Gwili matters and if it is desired to discuss working at height generally a separate thread be created.