Churnet Valley Railway General Discussion

What a fantastic government. They actually have completed one of the jobs already when they only announced it yesterday. Now that's effective management

 

Make that two jobs - the Nottingham Express Transit (Tram) extension to Clifton South that was announced was completed in 2015

 

Very true.

 

I do not think it is practical for a TOC to be running timetabled trains over a very slow heritage railway which has totally different rules and regulations and passes over three different junctions that are not even signalled. Who will pay for the delay minutes if the sprinter is held up on the CVR for some reason? I think the only way it would be workable would be if the TOC had sole running rights over that stretch of line, vertical separation doesn't work on the mainline railway and would be even worse on a heritage line.

 

IF this is a serious proposal (and so much of this week's announcement is far from serious), then those are details that would need working out as part of the planning of any service. Taking the issues you mention:
1. Rulebook. Crews operate over very different operational areas (think of Cambrian crews working through Shrewsbury, for example), and cope
2. Delay Minutes. The Swanage Railway have managed to find a way to handle the interaction for services to Wareham; the WSR manage to handle the connection at Norton Fitzwarren.
3. Signalling. If this was to be a public passenger service, signalling arrangements acceptable to ORR would be required.

 

I would think the line from Leekbrook to leek would have to be shared with CVR using one platform and NR using the other? If the two trains an hour to leek is mooted.

 

I don't understand your comments about Shrewsbury, both that and the Cambrian line are part of the same National rail network. Unless i am mistaken Swanage trains don't run an hourly service all day all through the week and if they do hold up the main line services i don't think they will be running for much longer. As for for WSR i am not aware that they run on the GWML to Taunton. Any signalling for a public train service would have to be operated by trained up, competent full time staff, certainly not volunteers.

 

Think you are confused - the Cambrian line being referred to is surely the Oswestry to Gobowen line which we are told is owned by the Cambrian Heritage Trust (if I've got the name right!). This was apparently on the list of lines that could reopen, but what would happen if they want to run further afield from where they join the national network at Gobowen is where the fun would really start! (and, lets face it, the demand for Oswestry-Gobowen by itself is unlikely to be heavy).

 

That would surely mean running on separate tracks like at Matlock but that would not be possible because of the new footpath and the pipes, just having separate platforms achieves nothing.

 

Not sure I follow your point about signalling - how do heritage railway's work? Most use volunteer signalmen (and volunteers in other safety-critical roles). The ORR would be concerned about training and competence (and how it is assessed, maintained etc.) but I wasn't aware they had a particular view on the employment status of those undertaking such roles. Heritage railways in general would be in trouble if they did.

Tom

 

I suspect any lines that did reopen would be tied to large house building schemes which was the whole idea of building HS2 in the first place, i don't think the government ever had any interest in improving rail services even back in 2010, it was all to do with property development and real estate. All these other schemes are what Sunak dreamed up in his hotel room to pad out his conference speech.

 

It wouldn’t be possible for them to share from the Leekbrook junction to leek, despite being one track?

I was going to check the plans to see if there’s one platform or two at leek. As far as I’m aware the original expectations 2 trains an hour from leek.

 

He is (see below), but I specifically did mean the railway from that goes to Pwllheli and Aberystwyth

Let's take this slowly, and item by item.
First, Swanage. Arrangements have been made that allow Swanage trains to work, as timetabled duties, onto the main line at Worgret. That may be limited, but will undoubtedly have had to address matters like delays.

Second, multiple rule books. I used Cambrian duties at Shrewsbury as an example of where a crew working a single train may encounter radically different operating conditions. The Cambrian is a long single line, worked without lineside signalling and with all measurements in km/h. Between Sutton Bridge and Shrewsbury they will work under semaphore signalling on a multiple track railway. If they then work the train on to Birmingham, they will then encounter further variations in working practice. All of these are within the national network and, though in a single rulebook, require adaptation to dramatically different ways of working.

Third, overlaps onto the WSR at Norton Fitzwarren. GWR crews have worked passenger trains on to WSR metals, at least as far as Bishops Lydeard.

All of these happen today, in ways that meet the relevant safety regulations.

I agree with @Jamessquared that the focus on such roles needing to be paid is misleading; my own take is that the primary issue with making a service regular will be in finding sufficient volunteers to run the timetabled public service in addition to the heritage service. I would tend to expect required signalling roles would become paid as a way of ensuring that continuity and the costs for that should be planned into any assessment.

 

https://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/news/stoke-on-trent-news/giant-center-parcs-style-holiday-8852807

With moneystone near Oakamoor now looking likely to be approved, could we see further expansion east from Froghall (approx 2-3 mile) to the bottom of the moneystone site just before Oakamoor tunnel as planned?

Shame there’s nothing in for the developer to pay for it.

At least there’s something to work on after leek

 

One of the more interesting snippets from that article is the 330 letters of objection from locals against 5 letters of support. I volunteered at the Oakamoor sidings in the 1990's and 2000's, before they were lifted for scrap money, and the local opposition towards the railway was as significant then as it appears to be now. There was even a case of an Oakamoor resident physically attacking a railway director, putting him in hospital. That's how deep the hatred out there runs.

I will be mildly surprised if the Moneystone development is built. I will be astounded if the CVR ever runs a train to Oakamoor again.

Sent from my moto g(8) power lite using Tapatalk

 

I can understand opposition, but that seems like something else. Why is it so strong?

 

I think you read too much into these objections: 33o against and 5 for is no kind of ballot. Any potential rail scheme anywhere in the country will attract exactly the same objections which would just melt away once the service stated to run. How many placards, demonstrations and anti petitions do you read about in the press against the Welsh Highland Railway now? I was told by a farmer that there was no way that he would allow the Llangollen Railway to lay track through Deeside - over his dead body. Who now complains about trains running to Paris across Kent? I remember the harridan at Oakamoor hitting the then CVR Director in the face with a camera and i laughed my socks off but that was less about the railway and more about people parking outside her house but she no longer lives there and the land has since been bought and built on by a friend of mine although no doubt many of those incomers who bought his houses will object to any railway that comes within half a mile of their little part of the countryside because of the noise, dirt, pollution and the vibration that will shake their houses to bits.

 

I queried the number of objections for such a small place as Oakamoor, and the intensity of those objections leading to assault - hence my question, which is specific to Oakamoor. It's somewhere that's been repeatedly referred to as a hostpot of opposition, and I'm curious as to why that opposition is so intense.

 

Not sure why quite so intense, but I suspect the residents of sleepy Oakamoor just see no benefits to them of having the railway. There are very few businesses in the village, seemingly little desire to develop tourism and so the residents are happy for it to stay quiet and sleepy.

Jon

 

My point is that i don't believe it is such a hotbed of opposition, a very small number of angry people set in their ways can make an awful lot of noise in terms of letters to the parish council and the local rag, you could expect this anywhere. If there was ever a serious attempt to extend the railway to Waterhouse exactly the same thing would happen, you can never appease these people. The existing CVR is also very unpopular with a lot of locals who want to walk along the track or see the track ripped up and replaced by a cycle track and i have already heard complaints about the recent path alongside the Leek extension and the silly zig zag fence across the East Chord which has been put there to stop cyclists from using the new foot crossing.