Swanage Railway General Discussion

I was there with about 100 other members thus the meeting was quorate.

The Trustees provided an update with lots of figures as to how much money the railway company needed but suffice it to say I think the amount required in aggregate from one source or another (fund raising, polar express revenue, cost reductions and restructuring by 2025 allowing gift aid to be claimed) is about £700K. The way figures are bandied about does sometimes obscure the reality.

Passenger numbers (annual) have dropped from C200K per annum pre covid to C150K currently.

There is to be a major push for both fund raising and volunteer recruitment and retention.

More focus would be placed on events.

The three biggest "costs" are: salaries £1Mpa, coal £288Kpa, hire fees C£237kpa.

The staff have been consulted on voluntary redundancy and failing that compulsory redundancy. This would be the third tranche of redundancy since Autumn 2020.

Concern was expressed by some members as to the impact of loss of essential skills.

There was some debate about loco hire costs, size of fleet (both operational and awaiting overhaul). Questions were asked about the disparity of some hire fees being charged by different owners / railways

The Trustees strove very hard to strike the balance between telling it as it is and not depressing the members excessively. The Trustees stated they believed that the company would survive.

One of the Trustees made the comment that these issues are not unique to Swanage Railway. Many other heritage railways in the south (but not all) are in a similar position. It was also stated (and repeated) that the railway had to be safe and operated in a commercial way - the latter I have interpreted as meaning that loss making activities must cease and expenditure must be prioritised with the railway operating within its means.

On a brighter note the entry into service of the T3 - which looks absolutely fantastic - was commended by all and the T3 group was much praised.

EDIT

I will add that some other points were raised for example the situation with the carriage shed but I think the main other topic was the restructuring to one entity so that there would be one accountable body - a single board - comprised of skilled and experienced trustee / directors. There was some debate about the creation of a nominations panel so that those individuals with the right skill set and experience would be put forward for election to be a director rather than the current situation where anyone can effectively put themselves forward as long as they got a nominator and seconder. The proposed methodology was likened to that used by the National Trust. There are going to be open forum and other updates before the final proposal is put to members. The current Trustees went to great pains to point out that the preservation of "members rights" would be a key part of any proposition formally put to the membership.

One other key issue was the recognition that the recruitment of a Financial Director is crucial as the railway has not had access to the level of data (and insight) provided by Andrew Moore prior to his stepping down.

Personally I think it is a shame that there does not appear to be much scope for informed debate. The Trustees obviously formulate their views based on data (financial, passenger carryings etc) not available to the general membership. If some of this data was more widely known I think it may make it easier to understand the rationale behind certain decisions.

 

According to the railway's Facebook page it seems refunds will be available to those that claim them. Presumably an email enquiry to: info@swanagerailway.co.uk might elicit a response/confirmation. Suspect the Passenger Services team, on 01929 425800, might be busy.
Also, at the same time, you might like to clarify that scheduled services might now be used with the T3 ticket rather than needing a separate ticket to get you from Norden to pick up the T3's trains at Swanage.
I hope you are successful.

 

Does this mean that they will now stop throwing money at the Wareham service?

 

Would be such a shame if they stopped the wareham service as I'm sure it could be very successful during July and August. Next year they using their own train operating licence arnt they with their own staff? Which could reduce costs further.

Swnaahe is in a tight spot. We used to on the railway 5/6 times a year, now only 2 or 3 just because the ticket price is so much.

How many staff does the railway employ? 1 million is alot which it could try to cut?

I can see a future where the railway only stays with 3 max locos in service and 1 or 2 under overhaul.

Sadly I do think the 'peak' of the railway js over.

 

If you (as a railway enthusiast) find the prices too expensive, why do you think other people, including families would be willing to pay a high ticket price for Wareham?

Wareham might be a nice to have, but it appears that it cannot get close to washing its face financially.
It's time to face facts, stop the passenger service (assuming all legal requirements to the council have been completed) and use it as a route for incoming charters and PW materials/plant.

 

Do you know what the turnover was? Also what did the balance sheet look like?

 

Accounts up to 31st Jan 2023 are available to see on the Companies House website.

 

Many of the costs on the Wareham service are "unavoidable" irrespective of who operates the service: mainline insurance, network rail track access charge, wareham station access charge to name but three.

The point that "if the prices were lower more people would us it / we would use it a lot more" is often put forward but there is very little evidence to support the contention that the overall revenue would be higher.

IIRC the railway employs 39 FTE (full time equivalent posts).

Does the income from the charters plus the (any) costs saved by having PW materials plant come in by rail (as opposed to road) exceed the costs of maintaining the section of the line from Norden Gates to Worgret Junction?

 

I'd be interested to know how much the railway has to pay Dorset Council for the lease of the line, and how much they have to pay Swanage town council who I believe own the station. If the rents aren't a peppercorn they probably should be!

 

There's the million dollar question. For incoming materials, it obviously depends how much replacement you are doing at any one time. In other words, you might not be getting much in now, but in 5 or 10 years you could find a connection very useful. There are also opportunities for "quid pro quos" that rely on a mainline connection: for example, on the Bluebell we have had extensive sections of the line tamped using mainline tampers in exchange for providing a training opportunity for the mainline engineering staff to learn to use the equipment - that is something that is only possible by virtue of a mainline connection.

For incoming charters, my sense is that the commercial opportunity for Swanage - in terms of secondary spend - is rather limited. Hopefully they are priced to the charter promoters at a level that covers the railway's costs, but I suspect they are more trouble than they are worth given the congested nature of Swanage station. On a more isolated line, there is at least the possibility that visitors will stay on the railway and eat at cafes etc, but at Swanage, that opportunity must be limited and I suspect most charter passengers would prefer to head straight off the railway into the town.

Tom

 

Are they? That has been their aspiration in the past, but we are now awaiting details from the SR of the financial performance of this years service, and whether or not it will run next year. Things aren’t looking hopeful at the moment from what I’ve heard.

 

I keep on hearing a rumour that SRC has to operate a Wareham service in 2024 because it is a condition of the 2014 Agreement with (the then) Dorset County Council to operate trial services on 2 consecutive years. If that is the case then one has to wonder why it didnt operate in 2018 as its failure to do so rendered the loss of £70k a double waste.

 

And wages around £1 million to put costs into perspective

 

Calling it a round million and 40 FTEs gives an average annual wage per FTE of £25K, some way below the apparent UK average of £29600.

 

Tom I agree there are other benefits of a mainline connection now it exists.The question becomes are they sufficient to cover the cost of maintaining the infrastructure, for what becomes without a regular service two or 3 gala weekends a year and the odd railtour or railtour stabling (as has been done wit the NB). It is a good ride down to River Frome, even if you do not then go onto NR metals, and I for one would hate it to be lost, but how many of "Joe Public" would see it as a benefit over just a Swanage Norden ride, and hence pay more I do not know.

Regarding the charter issue Swanage because of the two councils involvement perhaps has some "moral" (if that even exists now in the modern business world) to encourage people to visit the town, for the good off all the towns businesses. But way before Covid, when I was stewarding a lot there was a figure being banded around for what a Heritage Line received for allowing a railtour. No idea if it was accurate and of course now well out of date, but at the time it struck me that as for the grief they always seem to cause to the normal operation if it was worth it. Even more recently this year and last years Swanage Belle impacted either the last or the two last Swanage services. The West Somerset Steam Express seemed to have issues on two trips this years and always impacts on the WSR service, which often has to be recast for the day. Although once again I would be disappointed if through tours ceased to HR's.

Then of course you have the whole is the extension necessary debate when a new one is discussed somewhere. No idea now for example how East Grinstead has proven financially, but I seem to remember a comment in one of the society magazines a couple of years after opening that numbers starting there were well down on predictions.

 

Well all they would "save" on running it themselves as far as I can see is the cost of a WCRC (or some other TOC) driver and guard., which of course includes accommodation, subsidence and the WCRC profit margin.The fact that some of those WCRC were local to Swanage may have reduced costs even more. But WCRC had a biggish pool to choose from, sometimes a driver or guard only coming down for the day. If Swanage becomes a TOC in its own right it is going to have some costs in that, no idea what, but government bodies are involved so it will not be small change. It then needs to be able to guarantee enough volunteers, who are prepared to want to go mainline to guarantee the operation. And you suggest that is all undertaken for just a two months operating season?

What makes you think, in Heritage Railway terms £18 for a return or £25 for a day rover or £99 for an annual pass is expensive. There are very few lines running big locos that charge less than that. Wareham will always have to cost more, it is a longer journey and you have the NR costs, as have been mentioned.

 

One cost that really should be looked at is the loco hire charges, and does the railway need to be a home to 2 out of ticket moguls ,i'm assuming the hire fee has to be paid for the Bunch loco's regardless if they are working, or stored, as well as taking up very much needed workshop space, once the M7, and Standard tank return, will there be a need for them? does Southern locos, recieve hire fees, or just steaming fees,? plus theres the T3 that along with 2 bullields make 5 engines,

 

It may not necessarily be true that SRC could operate the Wareham service significantly more cheaply than WCR. For example the mainline insurance premium costs for WCR are spreadover a very large amount of running whereas the premium for SRC may be disproportionately expensive as it would be spread over fewer days and less mileage. The WRC driver medicals and training costs are again spreadover a considerable amount of running whereas for SRC it would be Wareham service specific. SRC would have to bear all the costs of preparing and submitting the "paperwork" for what would be a very small operation. We know that SRC has already spent some money with Rail Business Solutions.