Swanage Railway General Discussion

Where fares are concerned, I think mileage is less important than time spent - if I pay £20 to visit an attraction, I want a decent amount of time from that attraction. At 1 hour for the round trip, Swanage is arguably slightly below the sweet spot for that - especially given the already discussed availability of alternative attractions at Corfe and Swanage.

 

But as a parent - "kids for a quid" type deals might be the difference between visiting an attraction and not - especially for attractions where the full price is in the £25+ sort of bracket. If you are on holiday, it mounts up if every day you are spending, say, £80+ rather than £50 ish to get into each day's "thing". Essentially your options are either something like "kids for a quid / kids go free" or a family ticket for 2+2 or 2+3 that is not much more than the price of two adults: they amount to more or less the same thing financially.

Related: if you are also eating out frequently on holiday, you start looking for those restaurants that do decent kids offers! Most of the chain restaurants seem to have worked out that if you keep a three course kids meal down to about £7 or £8, parents will go there - if kids essentially get no dispensation but just eat the adult food at adult prices, you don't tend to consider going even if the food is very good. Just check out the offers at places like Hungry Horse, Pizza Express, Zizzi etc. - they are based around enticing families to go (and then upselling to the parents ...)

For attractions that can offer it, the Gift Aid entry model of "pay now and have free returns within a year" is interesting on holiday. I must admit that I have used that to visit Beamish twice in a week while on holiday, but I suspect most places aren't so large as to make you want to do two trips in quick succession. It would be interesting to know the return patronage from places that offer it. With luck, it's the kind of place that as a parent sways you because it looks generous, and then you don't reuse it! However, at a place like Swanage it could backfire - you could imagine if you were camping at, say, Harman's Cross it might be quite attractive to get that sort of ticket and then use it several times in a week to go to and from the beach or Corfe Castle.

Absolutely - at £20+ entry, I'd be looking for entertainment for a whole day, i.e that would be the only thing (certainly the only paid-for thing) you'd do that day.

Aside: realised I subconsciously wrote "entry", not "journey". But that gets to the core of what you are buying when you visit most heritage railways. It's money in exchange for a period of entertainment, not a specific journey from A to B. That entertainment being a mixture of on and off train.

Tom

 

As I have stated previously the oft heard criticism of Swanage railway is that it is a lot of money for a 20 minute journey. Part of the problem is that the customer does not value or place a value on the other aspects of the experience and let us be clear it is an experience you are buying as much as transportation.: the PMMM at Norden, the Swanage Railway Museum at Corfe castle, the engine shed viewing area at Swanage and the picnic area at Swanage. One reason for that is of course you can visit both Museums free of charge, visit the viewing area and picnic area free of charge etc etc. Personally I think that SR could improve the perception of value for money by enhancing the station ambience with more flowers, more appropriate artefacts and some informative interpretation. There are parts of Swanage Station which quite frankly are pretty grotty and do not add to the experience e.g. the toilets - and even if you dont use the toilets you cant fail to help know where they are on a warm day by the aroma, the state of the flooring in the booking hall and the assortment of sheds and general impedimenta on the squint platform. It is certainly a contrast to Corfe Castle Station.

It is a very interesting point that @Gladiator 5076 makes about Kids for a £1. SRC seem to have switched this on and off without any calculation as to whether it works or not. in terms of increasing the overall take. I for one would certainly like to see some data on this. I echo the concerns that it could in fact become the default sector pricing model which of course would be fine if it is the better business model. But if you decide to do this then you have to stick with it and make sure you promote it heavily. There is no easy going back.

One other thought about @Gladiator 5076 remarks. He is quite correct to say chase profitability and not bums on seats: but once you have decided your operating programme which then defines your capacity you have to chase the bums on seats because beyond break even every sale is almost 100% profit as the marginal costs per seat occupied are so very low.

Having just seen @Jamessquared comment about the theoretical prospect of a pay once come back as many times as you like for a year ticket being a form of revenue dilution I would say "bring it on", The number of people who would do this (and thus there is a theoretical loss of revenue compared to the traditional ticket model) would be outweighed by a) the gift aid b) the perceived increase in value by all those who purchased tickets.

 

Some years ago I was included in the railway's discussions with a local Wedding Planner [still in business decades later] - about the possibility of it becoming a venue.
She was taken on a tour of Swanage and Corfe Castle stations and her considered opinion was that the railway did not have suitable amenities - in no particular order: separate area for the Registrar, sufficient toilet facilities, flat spaces for marquees [especially Swanage] and poor access for marquee/chairs lorries [none at Swanage and very difficult access at Corfe], plus several other points. The decision was taken, at that time, that the 'wedding market' was a non-starter.
Whether the same 'problems' would still be 'problems' for Wedding Planners today I fear might be true as none of the above have improved.
Whether the railway's management have re-visited the point in the interim, however, I have no idea.

 

The SRC operates the trains and charges the fares. It is not currently a charity and, therefore, unable claim Gift Aid.

 

Yes indeed. My reply was predicated on SRT and SRC being reconstituted as outlined at the AGM to allow this to happen.

 

Unfortunately this reconstitution cannot be achieved 'over night'. It will take some time to complete - assuming the membership agree to it via an EGM of some sort of course. I consider this to be a 'medium term' change, whereas the railway is in need of more immediate funds - otherwise the reconstitution will prove to be unnecessary [too late!].

 

The remarks about journey time are interesting. During the summer I visited Peak Rail and was taken on a lovely, gentle, roll through the countryside by a damn great big Diesel engine. It seemed entirely appropriate and I enjoyed the trip. In contrast, when I have seen the Swanage operating it seems to be at flat-out, breakneck speed (for clarity 25 mph) as if chasing a timetable that's just too tight for comfort.

Could the timetable not be relaxed slightly so the experience is a little more sedate and enjoyable, as well as prolonged?

 

Yes The SRT Chairman and Treasurer indicated they hoped to be able to progress this through to completion by Spring 2025 assuming that the membership approved the proposals. In the meantime there are 2 winters (and the intervening spring summer and autumn) to get through. I cant help but feel the SRT SRC is something of a supertanker which takes ages to respond to the helm. IMHO the only way of surviving until the effect of changes filters through is fundraising on a grand scale.

 

I am not sure if I understand your comment but the Talyllyn Railway gift aided fares come in various flavours and do not I think provide for year round access, the incentive to make the donation is a gift voucher redeemable in the refreshment room.

I don't think this assertion is correct. The Talyllyn Railway Company (which I think pioneered gift aid on fares), which operates the trains and is the party you contract with when you buy a ticket on that railway, is not a charity but it is owned by a charity.

The Talyllyn has not washed its face on operations for I would guess 40 years and is reliant on the membership to wrap the financial performance with donations. Saying that a railway should cover its operating costs from "operational activities" (however you define those), (and I think I suggested this in a TR News about 40 years ago), is a noble aspiration (and suggests that you already accept that capex must be funded from donations etc) but when you cannot achieve that, you have to fall back to the next defensive line, which is probably relying on donations.

 

I accept that Capex will probably have to be funded by donations / legacies etc but when operating costs have to be partially met from donations then that does seem to suggest a higher risk of failure than some would wish to accept. SRT has a comparatively small membership from which to draw support but again I accept that support usually comes from a much wider "audience".

 

I've seen different implementations of the Gift Aid Model. At (for example) Hollycombe, if you pay the supplementary amount and the Gift Aid on top of your entry, you get free re-admission throughout the year. At (for example) the Weald and Downland Museum, the supplement qualifies for a discount at the refreshment room.

(Or at least did last time I visited each; it's surprisingly difficult to find details of what you get for attractions that are now basically closed for the year )

Tom

 

NYMR have done differently, and their model is consistent with one I've encountered elsewhere (Eden Project comes to mind) where Gift Aid gets a full year's re-entry (NB - the most we've ever had out of it is 2 re-visists). Per post #9472 from @Jamessquared, I believe that the Gift Aid regulations require either a supplementary amount OR free access for a year; it's obviously possible to balance the two.

Interesting, though I suspect the details of the companies would also be important details in any discussion with HMRC

Fair comment, though I'd suggest it needs to be more than just a "noble aspiration" in most cases - Talyllyn is different in many ways to many other railways

 

The NYMR plc, Vale of Rheidol Railway aand Talyllyn Railway co all operate the trains and claim gift aid and, afaik, none are charities although supporting organisations are.

 

Aren't they all majority owned by a charity though?

 

I was involved in some of the administrative work by the solicitors working on the LR(E)O application and appeal hearing, and later had to work within the limitations of the leases under which SRCL operated. The relevant documents would be held by the parties to the leases, easements and other legal agreements - a combination of SRT/SRCL, DC, within the records of the Secretary of State and the individuals holding the agreements. Additionally, some may be registered with the Land Registry - but that would, in post cases, be dependent on action by the holder of the relevant deeds. However, most of these documents are not in the public domain. However, I do know that all have been referred to in the public domain (mostly at stakeholder meetings) by those with access to the original documents.

 

Isn’t the Swanage Railway largely owned by the Trust, though?

 

If the lease conditions were not significantly changed in 2014, then it could potentially void the lease held from DC,
Beyond that, some of the commitments entered into in order to obtain the withdrawal of objections to the granting of the LR(E)O could lead to proceedings for breach of contract if the individuals or corporate bodies concerned still have the relevant paperwork (or sufficient other evidence to prove that a binding commitment was made in order for them to take the action of withdrawing an objection).

 

So it is. No excuses then!

 

I do not question the existence or the enforceability of leases, freeholds, title deeds etc relating to land ownership, occupation and use etc. I do ask if there is any documentary proof of clauses either within the existing lease or as an addendum or separate agreement which limits the commercial activities Swanage Railway may undertake specifically to limit competition between Swanage Railway and the businesses within Corfe Castle village.