West Somerset Railway General Discussion

But 7821 replaced Hinton Manor at Swindon, which is a SVR loco. Ownership is irrelevant regarding what it on display in Swindon. It’s just a case on when there is a gap to fill, who has a loco they are willing to loan.

That said I can’t see the mogul ending up in Seindom. As one of only two locos owned by the WSR plc, it will probably always be either in traffic or bing worked on. Never stored for an extended period of time.

 

Agreed. The mogul is an incredibly useful bit of kit which the railway should be justifiably proud. Any investment in it will bring a strong return, so keeping it in traffic should be a priority.

 

They would still be hiring the loco (from the WSRA), the only difference would be that it would presumably be a long term hire. Let's hope the WSRA have a watertight hire agreement with regular cash payments

 

I agree - steaming fees means cash in the bank whereas a ‘run & repair’ agreement surely has far too many potential pitfalls for any loco owner to consider in the modern world.

It’s potentially a big win-win. The advantage for the plc is certainty the loco will remain on the railway long-term, and with a support group to raise funds. The advantage for the WSRA is providing another loco is entirely consistent with the mission to support their railway.

The biggest challenge for the WSRA is overhauling it in the first place, which they’ve so far been unable to do with their Manor and the overhaul of 4561 seems to’ve been in progress for many years.

 

I wonder if the WSRA could even end up sellling 4561 to fund 80064?

Not so many years ago they were trying to swap 4561 for 3803 at the SDR. Their reasoning being that 4561 was too small for use on the WSR.

Although more recently their fund raising campaign for 4561’s overhaul hails it as an ideal loco for the line.

 

It would make more sence to either use 4561, or hire it out, to maintain part of a funding avenue to be put towards 80064, and its overhaul, when 4561 out of ticket in ten years, and hopefully 80064 is ready to take its place, thought can then be turned to what to do then, possibly a swop between 4561 and 7821 so the manor gets an chance, to be overhauled,

 

The trouble with all such speculation is that it ignores the special variety of logic that seems to operate in West Somerset.

 

I don't know how the economics of having a loco as a Hire loco stack up, but I'd have thought a small prairie would be a good candidate for that role.

Good to run both directions, no tender so less expensive to transport, plenty powerful enough for most lines?

On hire elsewhere during peak season, home for shoulder season work and winter maintenance.

Chris

 

Logic seems to be a strange word to certain parts of Somerset.

 

The WSRA sold 6412 (to buy Ditcheat as it happens) and the reason given at the time was that it was too small for the line so spent most of its time elsewhere running at a loss, thus they were effectively subsidising other lines which they didn't think was a good way to carry on, and Ditcheat was the answer.

I don't know if the hire economics would be much diferent for 4561 16 years later?

The problem with selling 4561 though must be that they have sunk an awful lot of money into building what is almost a new locomotive - will anyone want to/be able to pay for that?

 

A lot depends on traffic requirements, if the WSR don't need to run 7 and 8 coach rakes and can reduce it to 5, possibly 4, then the maths change and a 45 xx might well be ok, certainly early, season and some mid-week days shorter rakes could be used, if passenger numbers remain low, but of course that in turn create other issues on break even costs, if you need ram packed 8 coach trains to cover your costs, for operating, and you are only filling 4, your going to not be around for very long, and the WSR, needs those numbers to survive, because short term, you might be able to not do essential maintaince, but long term, it will bite you back hard, when you can't run anything.

 

I don’t disagree. However the SDR seems to find it worthwhile maintaining a larger than necessary loco fleet, and having one or two of them out on hire for a large amount of the time.

 

They did, but haven't done for a couple of years. There aren't many lines now that have a surplus of locos available for long-term hire.

 

I think, more generally there is likely to be a shortage of motive power in the next couple of years.

Chris

 

I was the WSRA Chair when 6412 was sold and Ditcheat was purchased.

The two transactions did follow in quick succession but there was no link between them.

6412 was just a pointless waste of money by the WSRA, as had been proved over more than one restoration cycle, and in anything more than very marginal services, something like a manor (or a 7f !) is needed on the WSR.

And seasons with fairly marginal shoulders and poor peaks will not return the revenue to keep a WSR running. Do take a look at the rising sums being spent on servicing debt in WSR accounts. How long have Odney and 9351 got to run before the next overhauls? What sums are held in reserve for these overhauls? Anything at all?

 

7828 returned December 2018 and 9351 summer 2019.

 

6430 has been at Gwili all year, running this month on Santas. The SDR are managing the locomotive until it's boiler ticket expires in February 2025.

 

Given my lawyerly cynicism, and long experience, 10-year overhauls usually last about 8, so that would imply 7828 OOT in 2026 and 9351 in 2027. Not so far away.

It is to be hoped that 80064’s overhaul proceeds as rapidly as expected.

 

Playing devil's advocate, could the WSRA overhaul 80064 and then send it off on hire to railway X?