Vintage Trains 2025

West Coast make a flat charge per booking of £3.75. I think that's reasonable. I suspect the CMA would be interested in whether a percentage charge reflected the cost structure of doing business.

 

As the one who raised the spectre of the CMA, I should be clear that I was thinking of the market in online booking services and NOT the way that VT and many others use them. As @Sidmouth made clear, these do levy significant charges which would have a material impact if bundled into the headline price.

 

Agreed, the driver would be the concert and festival ticket business which is huge. My only point really is that if it is right to charge a straight percentage --- and especially if that becomes the only way for the average punter to buy a ticket--- then it should really be in the upfront ticket price. If the fee and the cost of service is demonstrably per booking there is a better argument for a booking charge.

 

I have a different gripe with VT: that you (apparently) can't book one seat at a table for two, whereas you can with the other railtour promoters and operators.

 

Michael, I really appreciate you sticking your head above the parapet to engage with us on this contentious issue.

Like several others on here, I think my gripe is with the flat 6% online booking fee model. Just about acceptable on a single Shakespeare Express ticket, but on say, a £710 table for 2 booking on the Shap Mountaineer, I find the thought of FareHarbor trousering £42.60 for the privilege of booking the seats is deeply distasteful. In my view, this is gouging the customer, and I am sorry (and surprised) that VT feel they had no alternative but to sign up with FareHarbor on these terms.

While it remains possible to circumvent the fee by booking by phone, I will continue to be a VT customer as in every other respect I am a huge admirer of what they do.

Nick M.

 

Actually we absorb 50pc of Fareharbor charges on Pullman tickets so as to move towards your point. Other ticketing systems may be cheaper but offer us little additional functionality in terms of analysis and also promotion (we use Fareharbor to promote the Polar Express for example). As we scale up after surviving the pandemic and the introduction of other competition, this is all useful to us in managing both our overheads, internal reporting and security during this period. Whilst booking fees may perhaps be contentious, actually the vast majority of passengers (particularly the non enthusiast and growing market) don’t object. If you do, instead of whinging here, why not book by phone which incurs no fee and you can also ask questions. Also, we don’t permit on line single bookings at tables of two for the obvious reason that we are able to sell all these tables for two at a premium. Our market is growing in Shakespeare Expresses originating from several destinations together with Sunday lunch from Stratford. Day out express steam trains are increasingly expensive to run and so we must both maximise our revenue and seek to offer the best traction experience and on board offer. Step by step we plan to develop and will always keep everything under review. Your comments are appreciated and noted, but for now we will continue to work with Fareharbor but you can expect us to introduce a loyalty scheme which should also help

 

With other railtour promoters I can book one seat at a table for two and someone else books the other one. (I have had a table to myself, but only very rarely.) If you can sell every table for two to two people, while turning away people like me, that suggests that you have set the premium too low.

 

Wallet has now been opened, 2 tickets booked. Bahamas is a firm favourite of mine and haven't done the S&C for a couple of years. Who knew unassisted steam over here would now be a notable rarity - however, VT are showing it is possible, with vac stock.
Will be keeping a close eye out for further information regards the proposed trip to Newcastle mentioned in latest issue of Trackside. However, the draw of steam on the Keith & Dufftown railway is also a temptation at a similar time - have to see if I can afford to do both!

 

I’m more of an Enthusiast Class person myself, but occasionally I might want to book a table for two for a special trip with my best beloved - is this not the target market for this seating option? In this situation I would find it annoying if a table for two was unavailable because the seats had been sold off individually to solo travellers, so I support Vintage Trains’ policy in this regard.

Nick M.

 

Ralph, having read the justification kindly provided by Michael Whitehouse, do you still believe the online booking fee is unacceptable?

Nick M.

 

With other railtour promoters, seats at tables for two generally sell out well before the seats at tables for four. I don't expect to have a table to myself: I expect someone else to have booked the other seat. If you want to be sure of a table for two (whether for one person or two) you can't leave booking too late.

The probability of every table for two being occupied but one of them by only a single person is extremely low except where one person hasn't turned up. I see no reason why it would be any different with VT if they would sell single seats.

Edit: corrected a typo.

 

Yes, I often do the same when booking with other promoters. A table for two has the double convenience of being right next to a window, whilst you're also able to get out easily to go to the toilet without having to disturb anyone else. It is unfortunate that VT don't offer it. Roughly 90% of the time there will be someone else sharing the table with me but, like you, I have had the occasional trip where I've had it to myself.

 

I believe this level of "booking fee" is unacceptable for any event. Personally I would hide it in the ticket price as once you make it visible it annoys people.
Even low price ones can seem silly at times, think of the under £5 booking fee on a £995 driver experience.

 

Sorry to disagree but I don't agree with it. To me it discriminates against a solo traveller who does not want to be seated at a table with 3 total strangers whose idea of a good trip is to drink as much beer as they can whilst conversing amongst themselves at a higher voice volume than necessary.

Dave B

 

Yes, the reservation by table rather than individual seat means it’s pot luck where you end up sitting if you are a solo traveller, especially if joining at an intermediate station. I would be interested to know why Vintage have adopted this policy - maybe it speeds up boarding as it is quicker for passengers to locate a table rather than a particular seat? Or is it a limitation of the FareHarbor software?

On the earlier single Castle to Plymouth trip, I was a solo traveller allocated to a table with a family group of three and as they were a friendly and fair-minded bunch, we organised amongst ourselves to rotate our seating positions during the trip so everyone got a crack at a window seat. Luck of the draw.

 

On booking on any steam excursion there is an element of risk that one just has to accept. Many things can happen that result in a sub-optimal experience, including:

• Postponement
• Unanticipated diesel assistance due to low adhesion/fire risk/pathing issues
• Delays en-route leading to issues with onward travel
• Cancellation
• Substitution of a less desirable loco
• Diversion via a less desirable route
• Curtailment of steam hauled mileage
• Being in a coach at the rear of the train all day
• Being in a coach without opening windows
• Being seated next to some loud-mouthed know-it-all
• Etc

All things considered, I find that I can minimise the above risks by booking with Vintage Trains, particularly on those trips where Enthusiast Class is available. On those occasions when things do go wrong, you just have to suck it up.