North Yorkshire Moors Railway General Discussion

To answer my own question.. they're on the NYMR website: No. 45596 Bahamas Visit | North Yorkshire Moors Railway - NYMR

 

In terms of flagship engines, there aren't really too many, I fear. You've suggested 62005 and 61264 but the the average member of the public in BR livery they are virtually indistinguishable from a black 5, and nor is a a black "Jubilee". 4472 and 60007 at least have the "name", but how many will have heard of or recognise a rebuilt West Country pacific and be able to distinguish it from Duke of Gloucester or Britannia? I suggest that the only possible alternatives would be any LMS-maroon engines, or perhaps an LNER apple green engine , if only there was one!

 

Hogwarts Castle(s) at a guess, maybe 6201, Tornado… not many cut through into the public consciousness… A4s have the Mallard factor so I agree with you on that.

EDIT Blue Peter…

Simon

 

61264 is not at the NYMR.

 

I think 70013 has a certain recognition factor but that might just be me. I wonder what the future holds for that loco.

 

I hear the sound of an axe being ground somewhere…

 

According to the Bank of England calculator ( https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy/inflation/inflation-calculator ) £3 in 1970 is the equivalent of £40.40 today (well, Feb 2025). Perhaps amazingly, that accords with my suggested price of £40 based on what has been charged for the Gresley train services.

 

Not at all. I am disappointed that both 61264 and 60007 no longer call the NYMR their home base, but it doesn't seem to bother that many other people. I get the impression that there isn't the same sense of "rooting for the home (i.e. NER/LNER) team at Grosmont, where they seem to prefer black 5s and BR standards.

 

Let's have Blue Peter please.


I can remember climbing over a fence with a donkey jacketed man in the MPD at Grosmont and being stopped and shouted at, 'Where are you going? Who do you think you are?"
The guy in the donkey jacket waited till the the angry man got close before he said, sticking out his hand, "I'm sorry, I'm the Chairman of the Railway"

 

Aren’t the majority of 1264’s owning group based in the East Midlands? Hence it going to Ruddington so its owners can work on it slightly closer to home?
I don’t think it’s a case of the NYMR not ‘rooting for’ loco’s with NE pedigree/history whatever you want to call it.
it’s just a case of what both respective loco groups want to do regarding their respective machines.

I’d also recommend you have a chat with my friends who had their machines based at Grosmont about 35 years ago and the reasons why they moved away…

 

I’d be interested to know where that complete agreement is, as when floated on this thread quite recently, the reaction was not “complete agreement”.

The teak set used to provide worthwhile middle of the day “internal” capacity and, suitably announced, could act as a draw to fulfil the dual functions of diverting demand from the Whitby trains and encouraging visitors. In the context of weak visitor numbers, I’d suggest that part of their value be considered properly before then moving to charging extra for their use.

 

Personally, I’m against charging extra and I’m saddened that people are thinking this way. The coaches were generally 3rd class back in the day and serve as a prime example of how it was for Joe Public to travel back then. To now elevate them to a form of premier travel and charge more is, I think very much the wrong thing to do. By all means use their quality as an attraction to pull in the public to ride on them but don’t start to make it exclusive.

 

There’s a huge assumption there that it makes financial sense to divert demand from Whitby trains. Whether that’s true or not the teak set needs a business justification for funds being spent on its repair rather than on other priorities. One such reason might be its potential to generate higher returns through its potential as a premium heritage experience

 

Dame Vera Lynn?

 

I don't think the suggestion is about diverting Whitby traffic, it is about developing new traffic at times of the day when the railway is otherwise under utilised. To me the main "tidal" flow to Whitby (out in the morning / back in the afternoon) is a given, so the financial question is about how you fill in the gap in the middle remuneratively.

I'm just wondering if you need a little reminder that you are in fact a Trustee of a charity which states its objectives as:

"2.1 The Charity's objects are. (a) The education of people of all backgrounds through the operation of a living museum demonstrating the impact of the coal-powered steam railway as a catalyst for the rapid expansion of the Industrial Revolution and a foundation of modern societies and economies. (b) The advancement of heritage by the preservation and operation for the public benefit of the historical railway line across the North York Moors between Grosmont and Pickering, North Yorkshire including the preservation, conservation, maintenance, repair and demonstration of: (i) heritage locomotives and rolling stock; (ii) heritage railway buildings, bridges and other historic railway structures; (iii) heritage signalling systems; and (iv) railway archives historical records and artefacts and the operation of heritage steam and diesel trains over the railway and other third party owned or controlled lines. (c) The advancement of citizenship, community development and individual wellbeing for all ages, backgrounds and ethnicities through the promotion of volunteering, learning and training including training and development in at-risk heritage skills. (d) The advancement of conservation of the flora, fauna and species within the Charity’s lineside estate, adjacent to and within the North York Moors National Park, including designated areas of special scientific interest forming part of that estate."

I'd suggest that if you see "heritage" as a premium product, you are getting it wrong. It is absolutely core to your own charity's objectives; without it, you aren’t delivering your stated purpose.

Tom

 

Perhaps that view is rooted in the old and failing business model that assumed enough people could be attracted at modest fare levels to generate an operating surplus. The evidence for the whole sector ,including main line tours is that the opportunity to experience steam in particular is likely to become more exclusive. The volume family market is under huge financial pressure. Spending power is greater for the “silver pound” and so called Dinkies (double income no kids) and those potential customers are more willing and able to afford higher margin premium products.
The NYMR is not immune from market trends and has to respond accordingly.

 

I think a mixture is required. Use your old carriages with catering and 1st class for premium but use the others to drawing the families. I've seen even in this times where children have had the wow factor when they realise the engine is over 100 years old and when the carriages look old. Let's face it Mk 1s although getting old don't look old compared to a Teak Gresley, Maunsell, or older. If you want to tell story especially in the 200 year then you need to show how railways developed over time. Other railways seem to succeed running old coaches in normal operations whilst also having a selection in a premium train.

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