The 10A Allocation

I suspect this will become to be more of a problem for those with bigger locomotives in the future in that who will want to hire them in, if air becomes the norm unless there is wholesale fitting its suddenly going to release probably 10 big loco's potentially into the hire market. IIRC someone (it may have been the FRT) suggested that they could hire out their 56xx 2 or 3 times over each year based on enquiries for her.

 

We English are very good at misusing words. A bodger is or was an extremely skilled woodturner. In France a chauffeur is/was a locomotive fireman. In England a chauffeur is a driver!

 

Possibly in light of various rumours on the Tornado thread, namely that Rileys are apparently contracted to do WCR maintenance for 3 years (not sure why it would be transferred out of house or in fact what they actually have needing maintenance beyond Tangmere??) plus Tornado is allocated to WCR (possibly maintained by Rileys??) for a similar period, albeit I do wonder whether that just a case of journo's putting 2 +2 together and making 470 or does the keep occurring '3 years' have some sort of meaning in terms of longer term WCR strategy. So here is a possible update, albeit hugely based upon what I suspect to be little more that wibble and conjecture in many cases...

48151 - Potentially under overhaul - detached cab seen in background of photo's associated with 6201 overhaul.
46115 - No idea, unless being stealthy fitted with air brakes square wheeled until boiler ticket runs out then who knows?
45699 - See above.
45690 - Out of ticket, but again see above.
45593 - No idea needs overhaul, probably see 46115.
44932 - See 46115
44767 - Suggestion that some work has been done at Riley’s (photo of wheel set having work on Facebook) albeit boiler which was rumoured to be the one visible in the yard behind the station does not appear to have moved, so at best slow burning project?
45110 - No idea needs overhaul, probably see 46115.
6201 - WCR seem to be doing contract overhaul on behalf of PES?
34067 - In service seems to have gained a cylinder from 34073 - see below.
34073 - Her frames are visible from mainline when certain stock is out,seems to have gained a boiler (34067's original?) but lost its LH cylinder?
34016 - Seems to be stored, has appeared in background of some 6201 pics stored outside.
35018 - See 46115
62005 - NELPG seem to be overhauling on site, from photo's doesn't seem to be any air brake fitment going on so who knows, perhaps they know something we don't?
5972 - Assume she will be staying at Harry Potter world for the foreseeable, probably little point in bringing her back to main line as Halls don't seem to fit anywhere anymore.
4920 - See above
76017 - At Southall.... no idea?
60163 - Operational air braked, the whole caboodle, 3 years at WCR maintained by Rileys???

Another rumour seen elsewhere, WNXX IIRC, is that the works shown in these photo's from @wcmlbls1846 of this parish https://andrewstransport.smugmug.com/Northwesttrains/North-West-trains-2025/i-m4WHndp could possibly be related to some form of southern link into the site from NR metals, possibly understandable considering just how crammed with stock the site now is and would making forming rakes and getting out easier but very very expensive (depending on who is paying for them), so again who knows....

ll above just gathered together from elsewhere and the result of a low sleep night last night....., probably full of errors and if so apologies.

 

I have no idea if the rumour is true but I could see a scenario where WCRC just decided to be a TOC and the engineering was outsourced. That does not of course mean that the staff or the workshops and locos would need to be elsewhere, just the staff TUPE'd across to a new employer.
Whilst working I sold one of our workshops along with the staff, and the only reason we got them to move was because our workshop was in a secure aviation area and the building was already leased from HAL and I seem to remember long term subleasing being and issue.

At the end of the day though probably all just good internet chatter, although in the railway world think Siemens or Hitachi for SWR and GWR as examples.

 

Rumours have a habit of making 2+2=5, and where individuals' livelihoods are concerned, more than 5.

 

76017 is at the Kent & East Sussex at the moment, so wouldn't have thought that'll be on the mainline anytime soon.

 

Perhaps a short term need for several carriage refurbishments means that having as few shop spaces as possible occupied by dismantled locos is a requirement...

 

After Bahamas tour yesterday I kind of wish 45699 was out and running. The overhaul was completed early 2023. Hope that air brakes are being considered. It has a good amount of time on the boiler ticket still.

 

After Saturday why would you want any jubilee air braked on MK2 shoved by a diesel everywhere?

 

Could not have put it better myself!

Noted that WCRC ran a Euston - Carlisle - S&C - Preston - Euston on Saturday with 86259 and a steamer. I live in North Wales and I used to do three or four of these a year as they were a latish departure from Crewe and so obviated the need for a hotel the night before. Batting along the WCML in Mark 1s was superb. Unfortunately, all I can see from Saturday is eight good reasons to either stay at home or buy another operator's superior product!

 

There is no requirement for a diesel if a generator car is used. Pathfinder had a railtour out the same day with West Coast Air Cons and a pair of Class 37s - the train had a generator car to provide the power.

 

Being lovely non-aircon stock, there was no generator coach in Saturday's Jubilee-hauled train.

 

May not be a requirement for it to be on the back, but as the Vintage tour showed it may have to follow. Which is the cheapest option I have no idea, although the the L.E. move seem to add operational complexity. What would have happened if the WCML had one of its many "meltdowns" between the L.E. move and the tour? Hire a 47 from WCRC?

 

And with VT well advanced with fitment of CDL to their Mk1s and Mk2s there is a clear model for West Coast to follow - IF they choose to do so.

 

And those last 6 words are most likely what is on most people's minds, let's face it, the vast majority of customers given the choice will prefer to travel in an MK1, with its better seating, its larger opening windows, than to be in a sealed away from everything Air con, Mk2,

 

Again that is operator choice. With VT many miles away from their base they would have indeed been reliant on West Coast should the worst have happened, so decided to keep things within their own capability by shadowing the train. They dispatched 37240 all the way from B'ham to Hellifield when it was felt the 47 was in poor health too. This proved especially prudent when 7029 stalled on Hemerdon last year and the nearest alternative vacuum braked diesel was 100s of miles away. Their 47 was instead only 1 signal block behind and we were underway again within 30 minutes.
West Coast have regularly run their CMEs without diesel back up on recent years as their base in Carnforth is close enough to dispatch help in a reasonable time frame, indeed until the CDL 'issue', the CMEs were one of the last guaranteed steam only trips you could book on.
I suspect the real reason for lack of generator car on steam hauled trips is financial - a generator car takes the place of a coach of fare paying passengers. With until recently the only air braked steam locos being available being Black 5s, 11 plus a generator car puts the train overloaded for the majority of routes, it's on the limit for Tangmere too. So it might as well run with a diesel as that can provide traction assistance too.
With Tornado now at 10A, you now have a loco capable of hauling load 12 or 13 at reasonable mainline speeds, theoretically a diesel is not needed for additional traction and a generator car could be added without losing revenue - it would be interesting to see what happens in the future.

*incidentally The Great Britain was double headed down the Heart of Wales line last year without a diesel on the back after it was found the train was over length had the diesel stayed on. It was probably felt the lack of heating or air con was acceptable in this case.

 

Hate to disagree with you Martin, but I suspect a majority of passengers aren't actually that bothered, we enthusiasts are a minority. Given the outlay he has made on purchasing Riviera Trains and their stock, a clear business decision was made there.
That said, I wouldn't be surprised to see a small number of Mk1s fitted for Jacobite use as maximum train lengths dictate that a diesel or generator car can't be used up there without sacrificing valuable revenue.
If it was my business I would start selling off Mk1s to heritage lines (whilst they remain in good nick) to fund fitment of air brakes to the steam fleet. This makes much more financial sense given the amount of air braked, CDL fitted stock he now has and the fleet of steam locos sat idle.
Unfortunately, my business brain and David Smith's haven't necessarily been on the same wave length in recent years, so this is probably not an accurate prediction of his next steps!!

 

Do you think there would be many takers? I'm sure there must be some somewhere, but which heritage railways are actively looking for carriages and also have money to buy them?

(There's also an issue that even amongst lines that are, are the right ones available? I suspect as a proportion of the whole fleet, heritage lines have a higher need for brake vehicles, because they run shorter trains - and small lines with small fleets need an even bigger number, because they need resilience).

Tom

 

Didn’t JH buy MK1s from Swanage fairly recently?

 

Yes I do, this would likely be the last opportunity for anyone to acquire Mk1s in reasonable condition (outside of one off sales). As we well know, very few railways own their stock outright, private owner finances can be very different to heritage railway finances. The opportunity to acquire multiple vehicles in mainline running condition would be very difficult to ignore.
My fear is he sits on them for a few years and the sea air and Cumbrian weather takes its toll.
Having seen Carnforth yard on Saturday from the VT railtour 2 things struck me - a) the yard was exceptionally full, B) Some of the stock was in appalling condition having sat for years and looked only suitable for the scrap man.
This included an observation saloon and some other vehicles that had clearly been runners at one point. Would be a shame for decent vehicles to go to waste.