Fire Risk and Preserved Lines

As suggested

Whats the current situation?

I was in Porthmadog over Easter when thankfully it rained so the Ffestiniog ran steam but what about elsewhere?

 

Excellent to start a thread here, many thanks.

I was at the Kent and East Sussex Railway yesterday, Saturday 10 May, from 13.15 to 16.30 and both afternoon returns from Tenterden to Bodiam ran with steam (76017) as booked.

But as the clear blue sky days continue we will, I am sure, be in a changing situation so it would be a good idea to make contact with the railway before a visit.

They also have what seems to be an active FB page at https://www.facebook.com/KentandEastSussexRailway/

Bryan

 

ELR is diesel this weekend. Ffestiniog is diesel but Welsh Highland is steam. VoR is diesel. NYMR is diesel.

 

WSR was running normally yesterday, one steam and one diesel. No suggestion of substitution on agenda and a couple of burnt patches visible (none large that I saw).

 

I'm not sure what this is supposed to exemplify but to me all it does is that railways run through differing types of countryside with different types of lineside vegetation and different levels of gradients. I have no quibble with the NYMR mitigating its fire risk where necessary, where I differ is in it throwing in the towel completely and going all-diesel, where in the past diesel piloting between Goathland and Levisham proved to be just as effective and would normally require only one extra crew, but would appease visitors who want and expect steam haulage and walk away if only diesel is on offer.

 

Even if it can't be proved it's reasonable assumption that the NYMR caused the recent fire that decimated 120 acres of a Site of Special Scientific Interest. If it is prosecuted and shown to have been reckless the fine could be up to £20k in the magistrates court and unlimited in the crown court. The tinder dry state of the vegetation is so extreme that taking a fire across the Moors could well be seen as reckless. Even if the steam engine is coasting there is still the possibility of a source if ignition dropping from the ashpan. It's incredibly frustrating but, fortunately, however high the financial pressure to take risks, the railway's leadership are acting prudently. Diesel piloting between Levisham amd Goathland was an option for one of the less extreme Firecon conditions but by any measure the current protracted lack of rain is very extreme requiring the highest all diesel Firecon response.

 

I should have added that the additional challenge faced by the NYMR is that its trackbed and large areas of adjacent land are designated as Sites of Special Scientific Interest. Damaging them by reckless behaviour is a criminal offence. Without that designation the Railway Fires Act 1905 (as amended) would probably apply. That limits liability for damage caused to agricultural crops to £3k so the potential financial consequences of running steam are much less.

 

I replied to the other NYMR topic where one of the posters made reference to areas that there is no vehicle access, have you looked at the possibility of specialist vehicles with fogging units at all?

We have done some training for one of our customers who runs an 8x8 skid steer ATV which has a demountable fogging unit for firefighting which is ideal for moorland and upland fires- there's very few places it can't go with a skilled operator.

Chris

 

ELR diesel next weekend too

 

Bluebell was all steam this weekend (three locos in traffic).

Tom

 

Edit to add: as I was driving home last night, I went through a big band of rain in West Sussex!

Tom

 

SVR is red risk. We are running steam with all the usual precautions that comes with red. In the last 4 weeks we’ve had just the one big fire at the gala; although the 4 weeks preceding the gala we did have about 15 fires.

We run a Green, Yellow, Red, Double Red system. Double Red would be steam banned.

 

Presumably OMAHA is not ready yet? Moors Line 225 stated that testing would be carried out in April, I'm guessing this has been delayed a bit (as is often the case with these sort of projects) - is it anywhere near being finished?

 

IMO it would be reckless to run solo steam locos in the current tinder-dry conditions [ie no diesel pilots in what ever position in the train].

Mitigations such as reducing train weight/length and water spraying over the steeper sections before / between & after trains - isn't the latter that what the Welsh Highland have been doing ?
Notices / announcements ought to remind people of the fire risk situation ... mind you, people who take disposable BBQs out for picnics in areas like the Peak District and then wonder why NT wardens are on their case ...

At least the fire risk from discarded smoking materials is reducing as fewer people burn tobacco for their nicotine fix these days.

 

The locos tender is currently away at Riley’s for modifications. It’s a pure guess but I can’t se it being ready much before the autumn. I’d be happy to be proved wrong, though.
The NYMR is currently operating under their Firecon 3 state. This is all diesel between Pickering and Grosmont but does allow discretion to allow steam to be used on the EVL. It’s probably sensible not to, though. However, having only one operational EVL diesel at the moment might force the situation. D7628 isn’t appreciated until it’s missed.

 

Then of course there is all the staff training - both fitters and engine crew - to be undertaken. With a largely volunteer footplate crew that will take some time and will add another layer of rostering complexity until it is completed.

Peter

 

I wonder what the backup plan is if they have a failure on that Class 31. Is something in steam just in case its needed for the Whitby section? I know its unlikely but if there was an issue it would be a bit unfortunate to have to ring NR saying they had blocked the section, or had something stuck at Whitby, and had no means of recovering the train.

 

I don't know how the Worth Valley manage it but they are certainly still running steam. Generally recent weeks have been split between one steam and one diesel, though this coming one is 1940's weekend so steam will be front and centre. The area, as with many others, hasn't had any rain at all in weeks. I'd assume it would be the stretch from Damems to Oxenhope that would be the higher risk of any fire, but as said, I don't know if they have to run any special precautions. With it being the valley bottom and following the Beck that may well help them, but that is a guess.

 

Several lineside fires on the Wroth Vally during my trip on Easter Sunday, mostly dealt with by the train crews, but on a light train with the loco not really being teaxed, interesting times

 

For what it is worth, we had a somewhat similar "familiarity" issue recently with the introduction into service of Beachy Head, i.e. a loco coming into traffic of a type that no-one had any experience of and with considerable technical complexity in some of its systems.

We managed that largely as follows. Early running-in was done by the workshop, both to find and fix any snags, and, as things progressed, to develop knowledge about how best to operate the loco. Towards the end of the running-in period, a couple of inspectors became involved in the process and developed a detailed knowledge of the loco, both driving and firing. That process lasted approximately two months. One (of many) outputs of that process was a detailed operating document, rather fuller than is normal for our locos. At the end of that process - which probably involved about 500 miles of running-in and familiarisation - there were I think four people with good familiarity with the loco in operational conditions.

When the time came for a wider selection of crews to use the loco, priority was given to those who had been rostered to operate it during the launch event - those crews got half-trip familiarisation runs, under the supervision of the inspectors or workshop staff familiar with it.

For the gala itself, and stretching into the autumn, each time a new person was on the loco, they would have an inspector or workshop staff member ride with them on their first day to ensure they understood the loco. Initially that was the core group of four people; however, in time as familiarity has widened, it moved to other inspectors who could ride out with a new crew. There are still crew now who haven't been on the loco, but it is now a question of just having a watch on who is rostered and making sure there is someone familiar on the day to talk them through prep and ride out on the first trip.

I'm sure with an oil burner you'd want to do something along similar lines (the loco is going to have to be run-in any case). In principal our crew rosters might run further ahead than our loco duties, so you can't in any case only roster experienced crew on a new engine, so in practice we just roster "blind" as to motive power, but arrange someone experienced to be available if it becomes apparent that a Beachy Head turn will have a "new" driver on it.

Tom