Lynton and Barnstaple - Operations and Development

Very possibly. But the questions are really about how they negotiated that increase in price, and then how they implemented it - seemingly without regard to the restrictions on charities trading, and committing the Trust (a charity) to supporting a LBBC (a business). They did so in a way that required significant investment from supporters of the railway, and where those supporters also stand to lose out if the LBBC business collapses. Some may regard that as bad luck and confirming their altruistic intent, but I'm not sure that's true of all.

That then brings us to the return on capital, where the business is not even generating enough operating profits to pay the loans, hence the need for (legally questionable) donation income to be used.

I come from a project management background. One of the key questions in any project is about knowing when to stop.

 

Another consideration I think is for every project to be clear on vision and mission. I am unsure if this project had a high level of clarity.

 

I made what was meant as a helpful suggestion a few pages back.

 

Duplicate post

 

My hunch is that there was a great deal of clarity on the task - but much less on the actual outcome. By which I mean the "task" was to purchase the pub and it's site, but the "outcome" wasn't defined - was it a business, was it trackbed, was it an operating centre? And, as things came together at the end, how much was that influenced by needing some "good news"?

That lack of clarity contaminates the L&B in two ways. One is that it undermines trust in decisions. The other is that, without a clearly defined outcome in mind, it makes decision making about "where now" much harder. As we can see from this discussion, in which it's unclear whether OSI is a valuable asset because it's busy and making a small profit, or a large liability because it's tying up a lot of cash and paying minimal amounts back.

 

So, the idea is to rebuild the Lynton & Barnstaple Railway as it was, as much as is possible, Yes?
So ideally, Blackmoor station building would be reinstated as a station building.
Assuming the OSI business is a success, and generates lots of money and traffic, how can that building ever be restored to its original purpose. In which case a new station site and building will be required, so although the trust will have secured the former heritage asset at great expense, the railway will not have the use of it.
In the event that the OSI business is not a success, and does not generate lots of money and traffic, it will be clear that the charity has paid rather too much for a 'going concern' that isn't going. The railway would then have the opportunity to repurpose the OSI as a station building, but would simultaneously give ammunition to those opposing the project by allowing the pub to fail and lose credibility regarding its ability to run a business, manage donor's money, estimate property values, negotiate, etc.
I have yet to comprehend how the current situation can be made into a win for the L&B project

 

As I see it, there are only two ways out of this mess, and both are just as bad as each other

1) The pub fails, and it goes to Auction and is sold off to a new company who wants the railway to be rebuilt.

or

2) It gets sold to a property developer who clears the site and builds a small estate of houses, so in one go, stopping the rebuilding of the railway.

Option 1 could open up all sorts of battle wounds, and it could have far-reaching effects for any group involved with the rebuilding of the Railway.
Option two is something we don't want, but it might happen. From those I have spoken to, there is no appetite from members to put any more money into the pub and if those who lose any money because it goes bust, then again it will have repercussions for all the groups.

As I said a few pages back, but got called various names for my effort, I did suggest that we need a big picture view of Blackmoor. Given what ENPA said about rebuilding the railway back to as close as we can, then we need to look at building a heritage-style pub with all my suggestions I made back then.

If you look at the plan that was suggested for this site in the first place, did anyone take on board just how much it was going to cost to get to that stage? The more I look at this, the more I am convinced that no long-term planning was considered and buying the pub was based on we need some good news or a knee-jerk reaction.

The one underlying fact is that to get the site ready for a railway is going to cost a lot more than people can get their heads around right now.

Oh, and as for the second result, which is also not good for the Trust and Blackmoor PLC, would be to sell the site to someone who supports the railway in general but is willing to sponsor a major rebuild of the site but then for say Ten years+ recoves his investment by extracting all the profit from not only the new Pub but the railway as well.

 

Other options exist, as @21B suggested in a previous thread. But any of them require clear thought and intent, with a real understanding of why things are being done, and what is necessary, as opposed to what is is nice or convenient. At some point, something will happen and force difficult choices - and those choices are almost always better taken in a planned way than as a rushed reaction.

 

This is one of the least worst suggestions, but building a pastiche country pub is really difficult to do well. Its even more difficult than building a pastiche cottage that still complies with building regs as there's all sorts of regulations about accessibility, employment standards, working environment, as well as commercial pressures.
Old pubs look cosy, and have small windows. Modern customers want to look out at he countryside- which dictates bigger windows, spoiling the appearance and attractiveness to potential customers.
Old pubs have beamed, low ceilings. Modern restaurants must have higher ceilings to comply with air-handling requirements, spoiling the appearance and attractiveness to potential customers.
Old pubs have fireplaces with welcoming open fires. Modern buildings must be well insulated and un-monitorable, uncontrollable open fires are not permitted, spoiling the attractiveness etc.etc.
Most, if not all of the characteristics which make old pubs attractive and given survival to the successful, are simply impossible to replicate, leading to the 'Plastic Ploughman' look which has not proved very successful.
Many more modern pub buildings in good locations are no longer pubs, instead becoming McDonalds etc, which suggests that while such premises are still ideal to cater for the needs of the travelling public, they are catering for needs which have changed massively in the past 50years. Did I ever take my wife to the Target on the Western Avenue for dinner? No, we headed out to the Chequers cos it was cosy.

 

>>>>>As I see it, there are only two ways out of this mess, and both are just as bad as each other....
1) The pub fails, and it goes to Auction and is sold off to a new company who wants the railway to be rebuilt........
Option 1 could open up all sorts of battle wounds, and it could have far-reaching effects for any group involved with the rebuilding of the Railway......

I'm not quite sure that I understand your response. If the new owners want the railway rebuilt, then would that not be a good thing? Might they not be helpful to the railway?
Of course, if they then go bust some years later and sell on again, there might be more problems ahead :-(

 

I think this thread is getting a bit too pessimistic about the prospects for the OSHI which, it should not be forgotten, is trading at an operational profit therefore rushing into closing it down and liquidation would be daft so long as that remains possible. Yes, the financial structure is potentially crippling and the Trust should take this seriously but other possibilities might include:
3) Debt restructuring, subject to agreement of the creditors - including the Trust.
4) The L&B's plan has always been to keep the pub as a pub and to provide alternative station facilities. So another option might be to transfer to the L&B Trust all land necessary for the railway reconstruction, and then sell all or part of the pub business in order to repay the debts.

Even if the Trust made an overall loss on their investment that'd be better than allowing the business to become insolvent and potentially losing everything.

Those who think the OSHI should be closed down in order to convert it back into a station would be sacrificing a big chunk of its history & heritage as a local pub - for a period considerably longer than the time spent as a railway station.

 

The railway was 37 years start to finish, and has been gone for 90 years. Every bit of it has not been a railway for far longer than it was a railway.
On that logic, we shouldn't be trying to reinstate the railway at all

 

Absolutely spot-on - we don't ever apply logic to railway preservation - it just doesn't add up however you try to do it, and that's probably one reason why we love it. As far as all forms of heritage are concerned there is no formula. Each location, or vehicle or 'thing' needs to be asessed in its own right and compromises are frequently necessary both in the interest of the heritage and the interests of the people who like to visit it, ride on it or drink in it. Cheers (glass still half full)!

 

As far as I can tell, apart from some of the platform, none of the public areas of the pub actually form part of the station building. What is left has been changed considerably, and would need major reconstruction to make it into a station suitable for 21st-century use. Changes to the road junction, levels and traffic density necessitates moving the bridge slightly to the west, which fits in well with a slightly realigned platform and deviating from the original formation. This is all covered in the still current and active planning permission, and is of course outside the ENPA area. The planning documentation is available HERE and HERE.

The recent acknowledgement that the route North from Blackmoor isn't due any day soon, and the planners' relaxation on the prerequisite roadworks conditions actually puts us in a better position than previously.

 

Glad to see a pub that's being invested in with kitchen equipment, skittles alley way being put back in and other stuff as well as paying its debts off and is still pulling a profit in is still being criticised.

Makes you wonder what under laying hope for failure you all want to see

 

I wish the OSI well. The point is about the sustainability of it on very thin margins, and the burden that places on the L&BRT and it's resources.

History is full of examples of businesses that could have paid their way if only they hadn't cost so much in the first place. The L&B may even have been one of them.

 

I did hear about the skittle alley, definitely all set there then

 

I don't think anyone's criticised the pub, nor the staff or manager, nor expressed any hope of failure. Just genuine worries about the L&B Trust's wisdom in the way they bought it, resulting in a worryingly high level of debt repayments and the associated risks both for the pub and the Trust.

Looking forward to seeing the skittles alley soon.

 

The only proper way to rebuild the railway is too demolish everything built at the site since 1935 and to reinstate the station as it was pre-closure. That is the railway on its original alignment and the station buildings back as they were. Anything else is an utter betrayal of the heritage and flies in the face of the recent CFL refusal.... Has nothing been learned from that? If we start deviating then all we are doing is building a brand new tourist attraction that just happens to follow in part the route of an old railway. I can drive the north Devon link road if I want that.

 

Yes, thank you @Miff ! At last, a positive view.
Mind you, the pessimist is never disappointed

In answer to thoughts about the original station, there is no intention to demolish the pub at all. The original building is still there, but it now has a large single story addition at the front. The future railway route will skirt around this.
If you stand outside, the old building is still perfectly visible, although inside the ground floor has been quite a bit altered.



This is the view inside the single story extension, looking inward towards the original building:



The former frontage is the stone wall in the background. It looks like some of the windows have been turned into doors.

This is the view behind that stone frontage, inside the original building:



The outside wall would have been on the left in this picture.
Note the old staircase at the back, on the right.

To repeat: There is no intention of turning this back into the old station, the new tracks will sweep around it. Also, the former owners built themselves a new house on the old trackbed, another reason for going around the old building.
It's a substantial site, go and visit it, and have a drink and a meal. Lots of people do.