P2 Locomotive Company and related matters

I suspect that back in the day, the A1SLT was holding itself out as bigger, bolder and more professional than the "cottage industry" of British heritage industry. Once you get into the idea of "corporate is best", Meinegen would have looked very appealing.

Unfortunately, it didn't turn out that way. I don't think the A1SLT was ever the cut above the other parts of the heritage industry and Meinegen's problems are coming to light all over the place.

I'm not sure you can blame them for the sourcing decision in the first place, but something in the procurement process has gone horribly wrong to leave them in this mess.

After the first boiler went wrong, the whole procurement should have been aborted and one of the British boiler makers engaged (albeit it will have had to have been a different commercial basis with more risk and cost to the trust, but less than the mess they are in now).

As for who needs who more between WCRC and the trust? One of them has complete working assets for which there is a secondary market, the other has the A1 and half a P2. I wonder if WCRC have given up on this summer and will cut costs and hope a few Christmas jobs bring in some cash.

 

I don't think anything's gone wrong with the Patriot boiler either, and that's a big chunk of kit

 

Remind us how many steaming cycles it has done???

 

Over the last 50 years I've seen a lot of changes in the boiler making/repair 'Industry' The first boiler that I was involved with, and now own was shopped out to a smallish concern in the East of England, after seven years 'We' reclaimed it and I personally put a lot of work into sorting out both the original reason for it needing to be rebuilt and the mess that the contractors had made of things.
More recently a few acquaintances of mine have had boilers rebuilt by 'Acknowledged' specialist boiler repair contractors which have come back with important mis-alignment issues. During a term of employment in a restoration company I trusted a Swindon trained boiler maker who was employed by 'Us' to re-build a small vertical boiler which I ended up having to 'Straighten up' and currently I'm in partnership on a boiler which went to a boilermaker in the South East and has ended up in a deplorable state which I've no doubt will fall to Me to sort out in the end. Conversely I have seen some excellent work carried out, and single out Israel Newton as a good example, but on the whole there aren't many boilermakers that I would even ask to sweep the tubes.

 

With experience of 60103 IRE could be a candidate.

With experience of 60532, LSL could be a candidate, although they seem to have ditched contract work???

 

As many as boilers 2 and 3 for Tornado/P2

 

So none, and no idea on its performance then???

 

Which is exactly where the A1SLT finds itself. Just several boilers in the hole at once.
On paper, Meinegen seemed a good idea, and one has to be careful with 20:20 hind sight. But equally, to tie oneself to a supplier without a way out was foolish (or if there was a way out, why wasn't it taken?)

The phrase "cottage industry" comes from Bob Meanley's report on the cost overruns on Flying Scotsman. As you have found, with small companies (which are effectively not worth suing), the only way is continuous supervision. This would have been an unwanted expense, but one the A1SLT is presumably now finding less than the cost of the current chaos.

 

Better than "
The second boiler may never land in UK as it’s distorted and despite being heat treated they haven't been able to straighten it.

Third boiler, they have found a UK boiler company that will take on this boiler but only after major concerns are rectified. Foundation ring one serious concern. UK company is willing to work to sort smaller issues."
I would venture

 

South Devon Engineering took over the production of Bulleid Pacific firebox components from Roger Pridham when they purchased his business. Production of those and standard GWR firebox sections was a steady business with the costs of the pressing moulds spread across many locomotive restorations. It was the production of one off moulds for 850 Lord Nelson that hurt the preservation group where they had to pay the full cost for one pressing.

Cheers, Neil

 

No need to repeat what was said to me in January at DLW. I know all of that.

 

Both of those concerns have proved themselves to be competent engineering companies, but Ian, has his hands full as it is, possibly in 10 years' time, when Tornado's boiler is due for its next overhaul, he might get tasked with its rebuild, but by then, there's no guarantee as to if the loco will still be owned by A1trust, or if A1 trust will still be an independent concern, I have said previously what I think will happen, and that that someone else will bail out the A1 trust, and absorb it into their own organisation, I did think possibly West Coast, but now that's very unlikely, more likely LSL, will invest in the trust, and in effect take it over, Darlington could become an stabling base, / storage shed, Tornado will become part of the running fleet until its boiler becomes due for major work, the P2 will stay at Darlington, to be completed but under the guidance of LSL's CME, A new boiler will be made for the P2, paid for by LSL, in return for the A1 trust, tours etc coming under the LSL group.
Of course, I could be wrong, but the other scenerio will see stagnation, and both engines stuck in limbo with a trust that has no money and no direction.

 

I have it on very good authority that LSL will not work with A1SLT while SD and GBJ are involved.

 

In that case, I would say, we could see in time, another failure of an loco owning group, there is in reality very little chance of regime change, the most likily thing would be for the chair and commitee to press on regardless, with bills still needing to be paid, and income continueing to decline, until, someone else, either waves money in front of the trust, that means they have to agree, or if creditors stop being paid, in which case the matter becomes academic,

 

How do we know that the incomplete boiler/firebox was just parked between processes....not on a fixture?

 

That's just it - we don't.

 

But you obviously trust some scoures of information... quote "Ian has enough on his hands" ?. . So Ian Riley is a personal friend and you have have access to his order book ? I suggest you stop stoking up imaginary scenarios "Plinths", "Allesleys", "Bankruptcy". Your behaviour and others is simply not helping matters. You remind me of lynch mobs....

 

Point taken, lets wait and see how things progress, time will tell who has got it right, and at least i admit, when i got something wrong, about the origins of the original P2 boilers, yes, I did trust Google, I now know to be more selective.