North Yorkshire Moors Railway General Discussion

as someone said to me once “you don’t have to agree with the decision [of the board] you just have to understand why the decision has been made”

 

And be told the truth and not a load of bull***t as does happen. A recent classic one was a volunteer asking on Facebook why Scotsman wasn't being use 7 days/week whilst it was at the NYMR. The response from a board member was: "The charge for each running day is far more expensive than for static display. It's not about chasing revenue but about maximising the potential surplus over costs incurred. Maximising takings is a fools errand if it incurs additional costs at a level that reduces overall profits. Demand may be high but it's not limitless so the art is in running enough days to satisfy that demand with full trains. There may be days when static display is the better financial option. Getting that right is a management judgement." The truth of the matter is that static maintenance days are written into the contract.

 

On a completely different topic I notice that neither the Q6 or J27 are listed on the Steam Gala web page yet the 9F (which as far as I am aware has not turned a wheel in anger this season) is. I know the J27 has been on its summer holidays to Stainmore and Embsay? Call me a cynic but does this mean NELPG has been shunted into the siding adjacent to LNERCA? Hopefully I am proved wrong.

 

Q6 and J27 are booked to be at the event at Darlington for 3 weeks.

 

...... and I suspect that we all know which Board member (and former chairman) wrote that response......

 

There's no duty to hire Flying Scotsman. It's a commercial decision in which the management judgement referred to is critical. Whilst it's correct that a maximum number of operating days and lower cost static display days during the Hire Term have been agreed that has to be the hirer's decision as to whether that balance, and the revenue earning opportunities each creates in relation to likely demand, justify the decision to hire the Loco. The observation about chasing extra revenue but incurring additional costs in the process that reduce profitability is not just true of the Scotsman opportunity!

 

Fire Risk | North Yorkshire Moors Railway - NYMR

Fire Risk



Update 12/08/2025 13:00

Due to the large wildfire at Harwood Dale, which is outside the NYMR route but within the North York Moors National Park, we have made the decision to pause steam services until further notice. This is to help reduce the risk of lineside fires and reduce pressure on the fire brigade.

We are sorry for any inconvenience this may cause and thank you for your understanding. Our heritage diesel fleet will continue to run scheduled services.

Thank you for your continued support.

 

Yes I would like to think that any railway (or any commercial operation actually) looks at what is profitable rather than chasing revenue or bums on seats.
Aviation is a prime example of where revenue or bums on seats, very much a "fad" at one stage is a quick path to the business graveyard.

 

More bull**it John. However I’m not brainy enough to be baffled by it and I suspect neither are a lot of others.

 

Would you are to rewrite that in simpler but still meaningful, none Humphrey Appleby-esque sentences? I think I can do it without muddying the waters too muchAs it stands it reads to me as "we could have ignored the contractually required non-running maintenance days, but even if the trains then had run full it would have cost as much, or more, in breach of contract fees etc. and loss of confidence with owners and operators that would likely mean it would never return in the future". Of course, it would have been easier to agree with Steve and state that "we cannot run every day for contractual reasons" but that wouldn't have conveyed the impression (possibly not justified!) that those in charge have a comprehensive grasp of what they are doing, would it?

 

Simple. There's a hire period between two dates. The parties agree the maximum number of potential running days during that period and the days on which the loco can be on static display. Running days are more expensive than static display ones. Whether it's worth hiring the loco depends on the demand for travel or display. That's a management judgement.

 

Perhaps "NRM require a number of non-running days. Looking at the likely demand for travel, we consider that balancing running and non-running days will maximise the profit we can make from this event."?

 

A sad but sensible decision. I was driving across the moors yesterday evening and I could see a large plume of smoke from the direction of Howdale Moor / Harwood Dale despite it being some 10 miles away.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgnvpg81d1o

 

Is having all the pax (and loco) change trains at Grosmont off the last Whitby normal or due to an issue today? Does not seem a particularly attractive offering if a normal event.

 

Last year it was a weekly / sometimes twice weekly occurrences to empty the CET on the Grosmont set at Pickering, but now the Grosmont set can be emptied next to the MPD and before the 9.15 departure to Whitby. Thus the Grosmont set never normally stays overnight in Pickering. But now just occurs if a set swap is required for operation reason, eg if a particular coach is required at C&W in Pickering for what ever reason. Normally occurs on the 1200 ex Pickering / 12.35 ex Whitby if it is required, but I suppose if it occurs in the 17.10 ex Whitby then only one set of passengers affected. It is a pain in the backside for all concerned, but at least it is a less of a pain than last year!

ps I wonder if the buffet car at C&W has now been fixed and restored to service? As a temporary measure a two sets of four seats had been commandeered in the middle of one of the sets for the last couple of weeks as a temporary measure, and which itself was a pain to operate

 

Ps one of the queries above was about the Corridor Composite. This has recently been working / attached on the north end of one of the sets to make it seven coaches.

 

Still not very meaningful, is it, though ~~It's not really possible to draw an view of likely demand until the tickets are being advertised, and until that demand can be gauged it isn't going to be known whether, for example, ticket prices have been pitched at a level that will even fill the trains allowed.

 

Seems most other railways that have had FS got the balance about right, one or 2 I think managed to schedule 1 or 2 extra trains in when they judged there was additional trade. Should be enough history out there now to get a good idea of potential demand bearing in mind most also seem to charge a premium. Haven't heard of many if any that made a loss from FS.


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Exactly! ..... but predictably the NYMR's Jonah in chief can only manage grudging negativity. The visit should be cause for celebration delivering a much needed cash boost at the back end of the season. Advance ticket sales are going well which indicates success but allowing for that possibility doesn't fit the instinctively gloomy narrative.