North Yorkshire Moors Railway General Discussion

It does. Which makes it all the more important to acknowledge not just that NYMR volunteers may have the best interests of the charity in mind, but their interests as volunteers are part of what the Trustees must incorporate into decision making.

 

No, the NYMR can have some recognition and kudos for having those articles in their constitution.
Based on what we are reading on here (and by some of your own posts), the articles are not used in practice.
Your earlier post seemed to imply that the railway was not there for the benefit of the volunteers, now you’re saying that it is. Please pick a side!

 

That's very true and, in the NYMR's case, there is often a reluctance to manage volunteers. I think I have said this before but I have been in more than one meeting where volunteer working on the shed has been discussed (not I hasten to add, footplate work.) In these meetings, senior management has said that suitable volunteers are welcome on shed during the week but not at weekends as that would require the duty fitter to look after them and prevent him doing his duties and it would be unfair to ask another member of paid staff to come in as they deserve their weekends off. Even with midweek volunteers, it seems that only regular ones are really wanted. On many occasions, I've turned and asked for something to do andbe told to go see 'Sean'. On going to see 'Sean' his usual response was 'I don't know why you've been told that as I've nothing for you to do.' You then go around asking others if they want any help and that would usually end up with helping NELPG or one of the other independent groups. This would contrast very much with the KESR where I would sometimes volunteer if working in the area. There I would be immediately welcomed and given a worthwhile job to do.

 

I suspect (but don't know) that one of the reasons why Tornado was hired was to give the railway more resilience in the steam loco fleet, which has been a bit depleted this season. In terms of costs, lets pluck a figure out of thin air of (say) £4000/day. I've no idea whether that's near or not but I'd say it is very near the top end for loco hire. At the cheapest pre-booked price of £34.65 that requires an extra 115 passengers/day to cover the hire cost but, because it is a hire cost, there is no deferred maintenance cost for the railway to consider, reducing the real cost of using the loco instead of a home fleet one quite significantly.
If anyone has a more accurate figure for prestige loco hire, it would be interesting to hear it without being too specific.

Edit: As further indication that steam locos are in short supply they could only muster 44806 and 60163 for a planned three steam loco roster.

 

Peter I really would like you to have a chat with my Dad about his dealings with an ex GM at his local railway, I really think both of you would get on very well with each other, I do see so many similarities atm.
I genuinely wonder why lessons are not being learned?

 

I think it is important tov recognise that the author of the posts you are referring to was a lawyer and I think his posts are very heavily influenced by his own prejudices, which I at least feel are diametrically opposed to reality. My opinion is that a very high percentage of volunteers do not do so for any personal benefit, other than knowing that they are performing in worthwhile roles where the paying customers are the principal beneficiaries of their freely given time and effort. What they need by way of support is people who understand, encourage and nurture that and appreciates their worth as the ongoing group who took the railway from its infancy to where it is now, not someone who decries their efforts as "expensive for the railway to manage". This sort of thinking is at the heart of what's wrong at the NYMR nowadays. If he really believes it he should transfer his whole attention to the GWSR, which seems to be falling well short of his ideals!

 

It surely can’t be beyond any doubt that managing a large number of volunteers requires more resource than for a small number of employees. To that extent volunteers are not entirely free labour. All the NYMR charitable purposes ( as for all charities) have to be for public benefit not private or personal. Promotion of the health, social and welfare benefits of volunteering has to be judged in that context such as whether it benefits society generally. Any personal benefit to individuals from the opportunity to volunteer is incidental.

 

In the interests of transparency, I would like to see the traffic figures and ticket sales figures published. Too much of the debate is being carried on blind. As a charity, the NYMR should publish passenger numbers as it once did in the past.

I don't think it's fair to members and volunteers to be secretive and encourage speculation.

It would be tragedy if the NYMR were to drift into further trouble. It has a lot of supporters and openness would encourage people to help.

 

That sounds very dogmatic. Is it consistent with your CEO's statement?

There have been numerous studies of the social benefits of active lifestyles. In fact I find it hard to believe that recruiting qualified volunteers would not benefit society generally. The question of whether it benefits the NYMR and what the indirect costs are is another matter.

 

A lot of the time volunteers find a leader from within their numbers, and can easily manage themselves, so all that they need is a light guiding hand, so I would dispute your first assertation. I also think that personal benefit, in terms of job satisfaction, which is what appeals to most volunteers is actually immaterial, as long as that volunteer effort is geared to wards the greater overall objective. Paid staff, after all are far more greatly influenced by salary matters than job satisfaction in many cases. There are quite a few staff who are not railway enthusiasts and not bothered about much more than doing what they are paid for. I think your arguments are, on the whole skewed in a negative way against volunteers due to your own prejudices, and are as such not worthy of someone who is a former Trust Chairman and present Trust Board member. Inclusive and inviting they are most definitely not!

 

I really would suggest you have a chat with Mr Dunster and definitely get in touch with his previous boss Mr Green.

 

1. Entirely consistent. Preferring to use volunteers has to take account of the numbers involved requiring more resource to manage.

 

Why is that so?
Surely it is not rocket science to have a list of jobs posted in a suitable location and for small groups of volunteers (or indeed individuals where appropriate) to “claim” them and then go and do them.
If the job requires use of tools a b and c which requires training then that is marked against the job so that volunteers know what they need for the job.
Training could be arranged for various weekends throughout the year to fit in with when volunteers are available.

The NYMR way of doing things seems to be to make training effectively impossible to attend for anyone with a mon - fri job, and to not trust volunteers to do anything unless it’s managed by paid staff.

Has no one on the management board ever stopped to think “why are we doing things like this when most other railways don’t?”

 

I’ve been working closely with him and his SVR colleagues for some time.

 

I agree with most of what you've written Martin, but thought I'd comment on the marketing part... You have literally seconds to draw someone's attention to a leaflet on a leaflet stand, what bit of the front cover screams heritage / steam railway? The marketing of the railway doesn't stack up...


Add on top of that, what has to be one of the worst websites for any heritage railway... The reason we didn't visit as a family this summer? Because the family couldn't navigate the website easily enough. The pricing, the setup of the key pages is all too jumbled and inconsistent.

And before anyone suggests, yes... I do volunteer in marketing at a heritage railway.

 

The website may not be great but it it grossly unfair to claim it is one of the worst. Many seem to be in a race to the bottom to hide any useful info.
NYMR, has a timetable, ticket prices and events. Covers the basics to me.

 

It's been on fire for the last couple of weeks. It's got worse this evening. We were on Sandsend beach all day, and as we packed up the smoke started to drift across.



Pretty horrendous over Whitby as well.

 

A thoughtful and balanced post which really puts things in perspective. The last comment highlights a significant challenge. The sector relies on attracting people to work for it who are not just motivated by money. Salaries are sometimes viewed with a typical Yorkshire incredulous "Ow Much?" but in senior roles are typically way below market rates. Recruiting into key positions can involve asking applicants to take a pay cut. Heritage railways have to offer more than financial rewards which is typically the satisfaction of being part of a mixed community of volunteers and employees achieving something really worthwhile. If paid staff are made to feel that they're an undesirable financial burden and a second best alternative to volunteers that will corrode their incentive to carry on. By all means extol the vital contribution of volunteers but don't fall into the trap of demonising paid staff on which the continued existence of many of the larger heritage railways also depends.