North Yorkshire Moors Railway General Discussion

Should probably be “best value on the day fare”.

All of the communication of price feels a little haphazard. It may work for the railway, but I would be genuinely intrigued to see the internal metrics that show the effect.

 

The book in advance discounts are available on the two-station, as well as the 4 station (ie Pickering to Whitby) ticket. Ps what park and ride model?

The only ticket not available on line is the £35 3-station ticket (has to be bought at the booking office), but then again it would still be cheaper to buy the all line ticket +14 days in advance.

 

If you are talking about the £54.50 ticket, then I don’t consider the communication of price is a little haphazard; quite the reverse. The simple message for walk up passengers is that the best value ticket is £54.50. Nothing could be clearer.

 

I was standing back and looking at the totality and reflecting on a rapid evolution in the course of a few months. It suggests a reactive approach and I would be interested to see whether it has worked or not.

 

It is widely reckoned that ticket prices on the main lines are confusing. This discussion suggests that it's that same on the NYMR.

 

I know from years of experience of inviting people onto the footplate that, when you ask them if they are travelling today, a majority say no. They’ve obviously made the effort to get there and it is quite likely that the fare has put them off and they haven’t looked at the website. Advertising the pre book discounts at the booking office may well tempt them to return.

 

Equally I suspect these days very few visitors plan a day out without looking up the website first, if only to check things like opening times, car parking and so on. So it is highly likely that those being shown a sign saying a £54.50 ticket is "best value" will previously have seen an offer for a ticket coasting twenty quid less. I can imagine that causing people to be disgruntled if they have checked the website in advance, mentally clocked the £32.50 "best value" figure, planned arrival times and car parking, and then find that on the door the railway wants to charge them £54.50.

I understand that the £32.50 price is only available in advance; and I also understand the actual price is a bit higher and that figure is calculated based on receiving a "thank you" which you may or may not redeem. But the nice big bold logo on your website doesn't say that: it says £32.50 rover is the best value ticket. So Mr and Mrs Tourist on holiday up north check out your website, check the train time, note where the car parking is, internalise the £32.50 cost, plan their journey to arrive in plenty of time to park and get to the booking office, only to find that the £65 they thought they'd spend for a day out is now the best part of £110. At which point their options are walk away, or swallow it but with a bad taste in the mouth and no inclination for secondary spend; or else pay the non-GA fare and at least get the price under a hundred quid, but still feeling disgruntled.

Perception is everything.

Tom

 

Is 30% off for two weeks in advance an unusually large discount?

 

I haven't done a systematic survey, but to take one railway in the south of England with which I am familiar the advance discount (available up to the night before) is 10%. (£27 advance / £30 on the day for a 3rd class rover). The Mid Hants for the same rover ticket price it at £24 advance / £28 on the day. Severn Valley are £26 for more than 3 days advance / £29.50 advance but less than three days / £33 on the door.

30% discount sounds large to me, and puts it strongly into the "this is a discount to entice people to come full stop" category, rather than the "this is a discount to reflect the marginal advantage we have if you book early".

It's really the figure that is so large - in your head, the £20 discrepancy alone between prices is more than many attractions charge for a whole day.

Tom

 

It's on the high side, but the 2 week requirement is also tough and will exclude many who plan days out based on mood and weather forecast once already on holiday. So much so that I suspect it exists more as a halo to say "look what's possible" than as a particularly serious price reduction.

I think the data from this year will be very interesting indeed. While it will be difficult to strip out the effect of fires and steam bans, the profile of pre-bookings vs on the day attendance, and the customer feedback (TripAdvisor, Google, comments, walkaways at the booking office) will all be combine to create a much more nuanced picture than pure revenue per seat will provide.

My fear, given many conversations on this thread, is that these will not measure the "wouldn't buy" numbers who look online and go "how much". Though getting to grips with how numbers of travellers intersect with price and conditions is difficult, I think it's one of the critical challenges - and the discounting shows that the initial analysis overstated public willingness to pay.

 

Tuesday 2nd September Download.ashx
No. 47077 'North Star'
No. 37264
No. 63395
No. 80136
No. 37688 'Lesser Pebbles'

 

On the KWVR it is 10% booked more than three days ahead. On the North Norfolk it's 15%. From the point of view of committing people to the purchase, I'd have thought that's the zone. Maybe @35B is right and the two weeks ahead is a 'from' fare.

 

Any discount is an admission the price is too high. Up to 10% and most people would give the benefit of the doubt, but a larger discount will provoke more uncertainty about the suitability of the original price.

At 30%, the size of discount immediately suggests the original price is way too high.
Many visits are not planned 14 days in advance due to weather etc. However, a huge discount may encourage people to plan.

£32 to £35, as a walk up fare, packs trains, as Gresley's visit proved. In that case the early Spring business got a huge boost and passengers were able to ride cheaply in March rather than pay more a few days later in April.

Scotsman always draws a crowd, but is the price right? We shall see.

 

I thought it was just called Pebbles. Still a lot of diesels out and about. What’s up with 926, 5428, 44806. & 92134?

 

I don’t know who was responsible for the original decisions over 2025 fares but they got it so wrong. Besides the hugely overpriced all line ticket there were no return fares Pickering-Grosmont - it was the full line price - and no single tickets. At least these have now been added but only for walk ups.

 

I would be a bit concerned that the value perception is established by the in advance ticket price and that this has the effect of enforcing the perception that the other tickets are expensive. If the advance ticket were a time limited promotion, meaning that only for the next two weeks is that advance ticket advantage available (for example) that would not set the price perception, what would happen is that people would think ooh that’s a bargain. Now, you have reinforced the perception (or potential of creating the perception) that the usual price is expensive. This is what I meant by haphazard pricing.

 

From a Facebook post yesterday, it looks like 5428 is being repainted before the gala.

Annual Steam Gala Update: hmmm...... - North Yorkshire Moors Railway | Facebook

 

Discounting is a legitimate pricing strategy. It’s perfectly reasonable to have a spread between the initial advertised price and the budgeted one, and to try to get the higher price and in so doing increase revenue.

What’s damaging is when the discounting is highly reactive, or sets the wrong tone for value. I’ve just booked for another railway, who offer 10% off for advance booking 3 days or more before travel. It’s a clear trade-off, and doesn’t distort my perception of price - helped by it being nearer £20 than £50, so the impact of a discount is less.

What I find interesting about the NYMR discount strategy is that it leaves the DFS-like impression that the “normal” price is artificially high, while in reality making it hard to avoid in a way that the permanent sales at DFS don’t.

 

Surely a vanity project of without any real requirement, meanwhile diesels rule the roost on the Whitby branch.

 

One presumes the loco needed a repaint anyway?