The Route to Preservation following the end of Steam

Quite - what we have in preservation (of ex-BR stock) is very strongly influenced by what went through Barry. Large express locos like Blackmore Vale or Clan Line that went direct to preservation from BR usage are comparatively rare.

Years ago I also did an analysis of leaving dates from Barry that showed fairly definitively that the smaller locos wents first: as numbers of those dried up the medium locos went, and the big locos went last.

So I don’t think the charge that early preservationists preferred large locos stacks up. The real problem was that by the late 60s even “small” locos were typically a class 4 or thereabouts. Comparatively few class 2 or smaller went to Barry. So the big miss is really that by time preservation got going, many of the really ideal locos for most lines (unsaturated pre-grouping class 1-2) had been scrapped a decade earlier.

Tom

 

Off the top of my head, a few Terriers and P's from the Southern, 1338, 1363, 1369, 1420,1442, 1450,1466 & 9400 from the GWR, 47383, 41708 and 51218 from the LMS and 68846 and 68153 (54) from the LNER. All the other small ex BR locos came from other sources. (4555 is relatively big!)
No doubt the list will now grow rapidly.

 

I don’t think larger locos going straight to preservation are that rare, we have 4079, 7029, 4900, 6998, 45593, 45596, 46201,46115, 48773, 60007, 60009, and I’ve probably left one or two out.

 

60019 and possibly 60532. Blue Peter spent some time in storage before purchase

 

Many of those ended up on the mainline though. The original quote was about people creating preserved lines and then obtaining large express locos to work on them, which was much less common:

"We all wanted to reopen our local line and ignored the fact it had always been worked by a tank loco or occasionally a 2-6-0 and in later years a 2 car DMU. Having secured the line, so many then rushed out to buy a main line express loco."

It's that latter point I'd suggest isn't particularly typical. For most heritage lines, larger locos came later and only really when the supply of smaller locos was largely exhausted.

Tom

 

Agreed but that wasn’t known at the time they were purchased, no one could have foreseen the main line steam scene we have now. The original proposals for the Gloucester and Warwick and Great Central were to run main line express engines.

 

I think they were in store at Healey Mills and on 25 October 1978 they were towed to Dinting Railway Centre.
Here they are parked up at Padfield en-route.

 

I think that Geoff Drury bought both on withdrawal and stored them at York for a while. They were later stored at Walton Colliery, Wakefield before going on to Dinting. No.19 was a very early participant in the return to steam on BR working from York to Scarborough in 1972.

Peter

 

21C123, 35028, 4472, 70000 and 92203 could also be added to the list, although I'm a bit confused by seeing 4900 on it. Do you know something we don't? Has it been hiding away in Box Tunnel since withdrawal in 1959??

 

That's a sad sad sight.

 

Back in the sixties groups were getting together to buy and preserve steam locos with no idea what they were going to do with them. Most just went into some form of storage where it might be possible to steam them on a siding or similar. 60007 ended up at Philadelphia, 46201 & 7808 at Ashchurch, 4079 at Buckminster, 34023, 35028, 75029 & 92203 at Longmoor, 7029 & 45593 at Tyseley and 60009 at Lochty as examples. They were all what I’d call big locos on sidings. Apart from the examples I quoted earlier there was little interest in the smaller and more mundane locos.
The preservation movement of the 1960’s was more one of hope for the future with no idea what that would be; so much different from today.

 

The 60007 group only ended up in the Philadelphia shed as a result of the BR steam ban. Prior to that they knew exactly what they wanted to do with their loco, run it on the main line. Something they achieved. Same could be said for 7029

 

4078, 7029, 60007 & 60019 did run on BR but that was only whilst steam was still in everyday service. Once August 1968 came along they had no known future on the main line and, as I said, effectively ended up on sidings.

 

The earlier preserved lines did have a good idea of what was the best for them. I started at Bridgnorth in June 1969 and the stud (working order) was 3205, Ivatt 2 6443, Ivatt 4 3106, and 8F 8773. Under restoration was LMS 0-6-0T 7383. Industrials were there in the form of a Peckett, The Lady A and what is now Warwickshire. All the main line engines were bought direct from BR except 7383 which came via the NCB, and 3205 via Didcot, but all were in service at preservation. They were all small and perhaps medium sized except the 8F, bought as it was a very important class totally ignored by officialdom, but still had a light axle loading suitable for a single line branch. But as later railway schemes evolved, small to medium sized engines were not to be had. Demand exceeded supply and what was available were the leftovers from Barry. Engines which had previously been ignored by preservationists as too big or too worn out suddenly became desirable; it was those or nothing.

 

Britannia is an interesting one. Condemned in May 1966 it was set aside for the National Collection. Subsequently Oliver Cromwell was decided on as it was the last loco to be outshopped following a general overhaul and later was involved in the 12 Guinea Special. 70000 survived in storage at Stratford then Preston Park and latterly at Redhill from where it was purchased in 1970.

 

I agree although strangely the last loco preserved from Woodhams was small prairie 5553 and small prairies, the odd pannier and Jinties were as small as anything that survived from Barry. Other than 5553, the last batch included some big locos including a 4MT, an 8F and a 9F - plus there's a handful of Bulleids that languished until the end - including Braunton.

The key thing as I see it is that not all HRs are alike and their needs differ widely equating to why SDR Buckfastleigh needed small tank engines and say GCR Loughborough, needed to set their sights much bigger.

Edit
Back of a fag-packet - there's ball-park 400 locos that are not pre-grouping-never-made-it-to-BR and ran post 1948. Excluding all industrials but here including the handful of new build, doner engines and museum pieces. About 185 of the 400 didn't come out of Woodhams meaning that HRs have a 55% dependancy on one scrapyard saving most of their scrap engines for preservationists. As I say, ball-park.

 

Other locos bought direct from BR service were (in no particular order) 45428, 61306, 46441, 42073, 42085, 62005, 61994 and 75027. Seems that there were a lot more than you think.

Peter

 

Indeed - including Scottish and North Eastern engines. I can attach a list if anyone is interested?

 

On the Bluebell, the sources were as follows:

LBSCR

• 55, 72, 473 - purchased direct from BR
• 32424 - new build

SECR

• 65, 592, 263, 323, 27 - purchased direct from BR (sometimes via intermediate groups)
• 178 - purchased from an industrial owner after BR service

LSWR

• 488 - purchased from BR
• 96 - purchased from an industrial owner after BR service

NLR

• 58850 - purchased from BR

GWR

• 9017 - purchased from BR

SR

• 541, 847, 1618, 1638 - From Barry / Woodhams
• 928 - purchased from BR
• 21c123 - purchased from BR
• 34059 - From Barry / Woodhams

BR

• 78059 (84030), 73082, 80100, 80151, 92240 - Barry / Woodhams
• 75027 - purchased from BR

Industrial

• “Sharpthorne”, “Baxter” - purchased from industry

So a lot purchased direct from BR (sometimes by intermediate groups / owners) but we were in very early. Most of the large locos came via Barry but were later acquisitions - only 75027 and 21c123 coming direct from BR, and both more than fifty years ago.

Tom