25 year bash for the GWR 175?

Is this truly a Pie-in-the-sky idea, or could it just work ?

Obviously requires a lot of work, but why not around a Bank Holiday let steam provide the motive power, in a similar fashion to the way loco hauled services ended on the Rhymney branch where they had 33, 37 and 47 run most services IIRC.

Be a chance for the 2 mainline panniers to get an outing along with one of the Halls and whatever else GWR is available at the time.

 

That was a very costly venture... who would pic up the tab?

 

Think if you wanted a plandampf with normal timings then you'd need something with a better power to weight ratio than a Pannier could offer, a Hall on load 4 would be pretty nippy off the mark, problem is a stopper typical of the North Warwick in steam days just woulden't have a prair of stickings to diesel timings, Acceleration in particular and braking is where time is lost as opposed to outright speed.

Any idea what the NRM want it for considering they already posess one ?.

A mainline freight again is a complete non starter, even if funds for the running of it, fitting of TPWS, OTMR etc to a 28XX were somehow found, there is no room on the modern railway for a steam age freight ambling along at 35MPH, their modern equivelant is running around at twice that speed, there's a good reason Pannier runs are rare, usually on sundays and mostly on secondary routes.

 

Really, wonder what speed a certain convoy between Ropley and Eastleigh will be travelling at... or what speed a certain loco did a 160 mile round trip to turn at.... :-k

When there's a will to see it happen, ways can be found

 

I'm afraid that, technically, the Rhymney Farewell Diesel Gala wasn't actually a 'Plamdamf', in the truest sense of the word. The normal Sunday timetable was run with a pair of units (something like a frequency every three hours-ish!), whilst an hourly service of top-and-tail 'extra's (1Zxx's) were worked around it. Ordinary tickets were only valid on the units, whilst only special premium-priced diesel gala tickets were valid on the l/h services. Particularly remember a group of young teenage girls at Caerphilly, who boarded the Crompton-hauled train...and got off again rather quickly, when the guard told them it would cost them a tenner each to get down to Cardiff! They wanted the units (usual fair two quid) in the block behind.

The principle is there though - that of 'taking over' a branch for the day (or indeed, weekend), and putting on additional steam services. The key is pathing them around the main services; a tricky problem that rules out most of the Cornish branches. It also has to be relatively self-contained. South Wales could be an appropriate location (shuttles to Treherbet? Merthyr? Rhymney?), as could some parts of Scotland, or around Birmingham. Anyone remember the 'Severn Coast Express' with Pathfinder, a while back? Gloucester-Newport-Bristol TM-Gloucester shuttles, shared between a pool of locos at low prices, over a long weekend. Perhaps that'd be the way to go?

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This is, of course, all idle speculation. None of us have pockets deep enough to fund a mainline special, let alone a Plamdamf...nor the right to 'suggest' to operators such as WCRC or Tysley what they should do with their operations. For the mainline at least, we shall just have to wait and see what the charter operators come up with. For the preserved scene however, 'GWR 175' is eminently marketable...and this is where we all come in.

It is all very well having lots of disjointed, random events throughout the year....I believe Didcot has been mentioned, as has the G&WR. How much more effective would these be, if some form of simple marketing campaign were to be jointly sponsored, to 'link' the events into one Summer-long umbrella of attractions? Picture a brochure or leaflet, showcasing the events available, and highlighting the attractions....all with a theme. Remember, 'themed' galas seem to attract a lot more punters (ref S&D galas at WSR, 'Thats Yer Lot' at NNR, etc etc). Different railways portray different sides of the GWR....picture a leaflet extolling the virtues of a Branch-line and Auto day at the South Devon, a Mainline engines event (with Collett coaches) at the SVR, a 'Sunny Seaside' event (with rockpools and deckchairs) at Paignton, a 'Country Branchline Day' with visiting pannier at the Gwili...the possibilities are endless for marketing. Not to mention photo-charter revenue!

When brought under one roof, the events have more of a link - a central theme, to draw the visitor in. After all, different railways portray different elements of the Great Western. Perhaps cultimating in one 'showcase' event, at a larger railway....the WSR Oct Gala, anyone?

Perhaps a small Steering Committee should be set up, of driven, proven, imaginative people, to draw up such a scheme? Financial packages could be put together; for instance, a railway pays a sum of money (varying for the size of the railway: perhaps 5% of the total ticket prices at their event?) to the GWR175 Committee, to be pooled to allow for central advertising, in magazines, newspapers, television, holiday brochures.....even a GWR175 logo could be drawn up, for display at 'registered' events!

Imaginitive, or far-fetched? Thoughts welcome...

 

Actually, the ideas suggested in this forum are an ideal form of free market research for the mainline operators, and I'm sure they take note - at least, of the less wild ideas! Like any business, they are always on the lookout for information about what might sell and what turns punters off. Enthusiasts like us are a small, but important part of their market, and a series of GW175 tours could also be attractive to a wider audience than just us. If Steam Dreams, for example, can increase the loadings on their 2010 runs to Worcester or Gloucester by advertising in a GW175 brochure distributed at all participating railways, and using a Castle or King loco, they'll be glad of the opportunity. Co-ordinating tours to places like Tysley, Didcot, WSR, SVR with open days, or loco exchanges just before or after a gala makes a lot of sense, too.

Running panniers on NR all weekend is harder to pull off, but there may be ways of doing something like it. How about using the Bristol branches (Portbury, Avonmouth, Titherington, etc.) for something? Or Frome to the East Somerset Rly as part of a joint open weekend with Yeoman's quarries?

This is the right time to be discussing this. I ike the idea of a GW175 Association to co-ordinate the interested parties. As for logos - ask Craig Tilley. He's pretty good at graphic design, etc.

Meanwhile, what are the chances of getting T9 120 overhauled in time for LSWR-175?

 

That's an excellent idea. I was thinking about something like this a while back, but the problem would be, who would do it? It's also getting a bit late in the day, but that said, if someone got organised it shouldn't be too hard to pull off. I myself was thinking something along the lines of the Brunel 200 set up. It would certainly be of benefit to the railways concerned by reaching a larger audience, as well as just raising public awareness generally. There is also that Brunel link, which carries a fair bit of clout these days.

A common logo does help - I did bash out a few a while back, the problem is coming up with something that is obviously GWR, but which isn't too fussy or a pastiche. Some of the STEAM promo stuff can be good.

As for Didcot, at this moment in time I understand the plan is for a week long event. I do have a few details, but as things are very much in the planning stage at the mo, it's probably best to wait for an official announcement. One thing you can expect though is the launch of 6023, quite appropriate as its depature from Barry in December 84 signalled the start of the 150 celebrations.

Last thing. If we can just get away from all these epic plamdamf schemes for a mo... how about having just a nice 'simple' railtour, London to Bristol and back, behind a nice engine, preferably around the end of August. Because let's not forget, that's what this is all about!

 

It seems that there is quite a bit of mutual interest, for celebrating GWR 175. To my (hopefully not too rosy) eyes, it seems like a good way of uniting preserved railways throughout the West, doing some (good!) joint advertising, celebrating a good cause....and above all, having a good time doing it. After all, thats what its all about, isn't it?

I do not want to propose what ideas for events could/couldn't work - whilst forums are ultimately about speculation, it seems that this thread may be setting groundworks for something positive. After all, it is pointless asking railways to put on events, or a GWR 175 Group 'suggesting'/requesting an event to put on....the final decision rests entirely on individual railways Special Events Committee, or board. They will put on an event tailored to their railway, to put on an event that is financially successful, enjoyable to operate etc - it would not be for a GWR175 Group to get involved in these sorts of things.

The way I see it working (personal opinion!) is to have a GWR 175 Committe set up, to merely act as an umbrella, to promote events with a uniform marketing plan, on a national level. Obviously this would have to be got off the ground asap - speculative letters sent to interested railways/museums etc, who are no doubt already planning next years events. A 'chain' of events, suitably marketed to the right people, could draw crowds - as Brunel 200 did, drawing many familes to them, as well as many others who would not normally have held an interest in engineering. That year, with all the media interest/news stories/TV progs etc, Brunel was 'cool'. Correctly done, with a sharp eye for marketing, GWR 175 could do this too.

This works to a tight time schedule (however, so do most marketing schemes); to aim to have compiled a definitive event 'calendar', in place by mid-Feb 2010, ready for distribution to Tourist Information Centres, Tourism Brochures, websites etc before the start of the main 'season' at Easter.

A financial package would have to be worked out, by someone experienced in such matters; for instance, should a railway imput a small share of money into the collective GWR 175 'pot'? Is sponsorship the road to go down? What benefits are there for a railway to hold a 'GWR 175 Endorsed" event, as opposed to one off their own back?

If people are serious about this, then now is the time to get talking, and doing. Forums like these are a fantasic place for meeting and making contacts, all over the preservation world - I believe that Mr Tiley's skills have already been mentioned, re a logo? No doubt that there are others on here, who have specific skills (organisation, planning, financial, budgeting, marketing, production, design, artwork....the list goes on) - or someone that 'knows someone else', who has the relevant skills.

I'm not suggesting a collective mishmash, of anyone from Nat-pres, that feels that they want to contribute. I think what is required is a small, young, enthusiastic and vibrant committee who meet regularly, are not afraid to try new ideas, and with an impressive media contact-book. Perhaps, thinking outside the box is required....how could (say) Twitter be used to promote an event, and create a 'buzz' online for it? Or (to a lesser extent), Facebook? Regular TV appearances, with stories that appeal to the media, are what is needed; the A1 Trust, and Mark Allatt in particular, are leaders in this field. Knowledge of the media world (and how it works) would be imperitive.

Anyone want to suggest further, or better still...follow?

At the risk of biting the bullet and saying something I'd regret...I'd be willing to get my hands dirty, in setting up the groundswork for this project, if anyone is really interested. It could be a showcase, for what young(ish) volunteers can do, in a short space of time - putting our hobby in the media spotlight, and drawing outsiders to our events. If anyone is interested, perhaps PM is the way forward, or further discussion on this thread. If sufficient interest is there, then who knows what may happen!

Time is of the essence though - now is the time to be talking about this, with a view to acting very soon.

 

I agree! There is nothing like a nice 'simple' railtour!

A few that come to mind are:

- 'The Bristolian' - 5029 one way, 5043 the other maybe

- 'The Merchant Venturer', Paddington - Weston-Super-Mare during the summer.

- 'Torbay Express' - Paddington to Kingswear via Berks & Hants line and return.

- Paddington to Weymouth, via Berks & Hants and Yeovil. That could be interesting!!! And before you say it, yes, the GWR did operate trains to Weymouth!

- 'The Mayflower' - Paddington to Westbury with D1015, then steam from Westbury to Plymouth and return.

- A few railtours with a certain 'Brit' renamed as one of the WR locos of that class?

Just a few ideas....

 

How about having a GWR 175 event a-la Wolsztyn style..

Plandampfs are hard to arrange, but you can have just the same with railtours..

Wolsztyn's Mayday annual parade see's several steam hauled excursions arrive at the station in the morning and then return in the evening, with a few shuttles in between.

Pick a suitable venue.. say Severn Valley, which could have a gala that weekend.. and have 3 or 4 inbound railtours to Kidderminster or Bewdley, and use the Panniers taking the stock from Bewdley back to Tyseley for servicing and returning in the afternoon... every movement becomes revenue.. the Panniers carrying to Brum and Back, makes the SVR a "mainline" and an excellant gala..

My suggestions would be say:
An extension of the shakespeares to Kidderminster that day with a hall,
A Castle or Cromwell from Didcot to Kidderminster ,
King from Paddington to Kidderminster
Tyseleys other castle from the north (say Chester).. to Kidderminster..

immiently do-able and from diverse areas brings in good revenue streams and provides a good steam shuttle from Birmingham to the SVR.

 

Don't forget that Weymouth was a GWR Station, and the LSWR, Southern & BR Southern Region only had running rights to Weymoth from Dorchester South, it wasn't until the regional boundaries were reorganised that Weymoth became a Southern Region Station, Weymoth Shed being a standard Dean 3 road shed with lifting shop

 

Lovely idea, provided there's room in the SVR timetable and enough siding/run-round space for all these incoming tours. Coping with just one mainline train can be difficult enough. Ask anyone on the Swanage, MHR, WSR or SVR about what can happen! It could only happen on a day when a fairly sparse SVR service was in use, not an intensive gala-style one. The tours would have to set out pretty early to give a decent length of time on the SVR, and would be quite late getting home. None of these are reasons for not trying, but will limit what can reasonably be achieved on any one day.

Most of all, any incoming tours have to be finacially worth-while for both the SVR and the tour organisers.

 

To utilise a pool of former GWR locos then, we have an all day excursion with different locos hauling different legs.
Paignton or Totnes - Minehead - Cheltenham - Tyseley - Didcot - Paignton.
To reposition the locos on their home lines, the circle would be run in the opposite direction the following day or week.
If NR would allow it, how about a steam hauled freight working Did - Tys?

 

Could the Didcot - Oxford shuttles be brought back for the summer or even a couple of weekends ?

 

Some interesting suggestions there but has everybody forgotten that a substantial part of the GWR was in Wales? There is the scenic route to West Wales and, of course, the Welsh Marches not to mention the Cardiff Valleys and the newly reopened line to Ebbw Vale.

Meic

 

As some of you know, I enjoy a good game of "Fantasy Railtours"! I wonder if RTC would consider a GW175 tour at Easter, in the style of The Great Britain, to cover as much of the remaining GW system as possible in a week? Start and finish at Paddington, but what route? Suggestions?

Try to avoid running over the same piece of track twice, keep light-engine moves to a minimum, and only use locos that will have a mainline ticket next April and are light/narrow enough for the piece of line (e.g. you can't send 5051 to Barmouth!). Lines that the GWR had running powers over are OK too, but try to avoid other routes. I think that might exclude Cheltenham - Birmingham and Swansea - Craven Arms - can someone confirm or correct this, please?

 

Ok I'll have a go...

Day 1: No. 5029 'Nunney Castle'
'The Bristolian' > Paddington - Swindon - Bristol

Day 2: No. 70013 'Oliver Cromwell' renamed as one of the WR 'Brits'
'The Mayflower' > Bristol - Taunton - Plymouth

Day 3: D1015 'Western Champion' & No. 70013 'Oliver Cromwell'
'Cornish Riviera Limited' > (D1015) Plymouth - Penzance - (D1015 attach to rear, 70013 on front) Plymouth - Taunton - Westbury

Day 4: No. 5029 'Nunney Castle' with D1015 banking
Westbury - Yeovil - Weymouth - Yeovil - Westbury - Reading West Jnc - Didcot

Day 5: No. 4965 'Rood Ashton Hall' and No. 4936 'Kinlet Hall'
Didcot - Birmingham Snow Hill - Stratford Upon Avon - Birmingham Snow Hill - Didcot

Day 6: No. 6023 'King Edward II'
'The Red Dragon' > Didcot - Carmarthen - Bristol

Day 7: No. 6024 'King Edward I' & No. 5043 'Earl Of Mount Edgcumbe'
(6024) Bristol - Shrewsbury - (Engine Change, 5043) Hereford - Worcester - Tyseley - Paddington (via Chilterns)

Well thats the mainlines sorted!

 

Just think how many branch lines could have GWR tank locos working along them even if only for one day of the year.

 

Most SVR gala's have a Bewdley-Kidderminster shuttle.. replace this with the railtours... and suggested before.. run the stock to Tyseley for servicing as a revenue carrying shuttle, or extension to the railtour (remember at least one of the sets would their own)... this could also make a joint Tyseley / SVR gala day.

I would imagine bringing in 1500+ passengers by rail would be profitable to the SVR.. as for the railtour promoters.. whats the difference between this tour and any other tour... (after all London has 3 tours in a day often now, so this isnt that ambitious really.. it's just specialist for a good reason)