Heritage Railway Magazine- Didcot to build 47xx class

Anyone read the article on this? Seems to be an interesting development using more components from the 'Barry Ten' locomotives.

 

Hi Tom

Yes I saw this article, for those that didn't some more of the Barry 10 are to be used to build a 47xx 2-8-0 (3 driving wheels from 4115 and cylinder block from 2861). Didcot already have a tender.

It's probably best to steer clear of the why/why nots of breaking up these locos, otherwise this thread could go on for pages.....

Putting that to one side, I would welcome a 47xx. Is it correct that the first one (4700) used the same boiler as a 28xx? If so it seems that Didcot have discounted the possibility of using 2861's boiler and they want to build a brand new one.

I think this project has been under discussion for some years, it has been mentionned before in the railway press, the question is are there enough people prepared put their hands in their pockets to see a 47xx as well as a County, Saint and Grange? Not sure if the 'Night Owls' we held in quite the same affection but I hope to be proved wrong.....

 

The Night Owls as you call them were predominantly used at night, on the fast fitted overnight van trains, but during the summer you would see them occasionally on the summer Saturday relief trains

 

I thought we were meant to be building a Churchward County next, or is that next month's project?

The first 47xx did indeed have the same No.1 boiler as a 28xx, If they intend on building a new boiler then that suggests it'll be a No.7, which means that the cylinder block from the 28xx will need modifying.

 

Save the 2800, and the prairie, restore them in their own right, and built a 4700 from scratch. If all you are using is the wheels and the cylinder block, then there is no point being butchers. Do the job properly GWS, apart from the butcherous County project, you've done right up to now.

Daniel

 

Are the GWS certain that the cylinder block ex 2861 is actually the same as a 47xx??

The smokebox of the 47 certainly looks a lot bigger in diameter than that of a No1 boiler and it has to fit the saddle which is cast in one piece with the cylinder block in LH & RH halves.

As at least one set of coupled wheels will be required new it seems rather wasteful to break 4115 which is of a more useful size for future use. Why not keep it in S Wales for say the Gwili Railway which desperately needs a "proper" steam loco to establish wider credibility.

 

Kerosene Castle's post (4) above explains the smokebox saddle.

 

47xx

I never saw one of these locomotives in service, and I'm pretty sure not many people did (the night owl reference). As a lifelong fan of the 28xxs (2807 is having is superheater header tested and boiler cold water test around now) I would love to see one of these bigger "cousins" for real and I imagine that it would be most capable on the Main Line, but I think it might just be a "loco too far" to paraphrase Arnhem in 1944. I'm a real fan of new build locos but I don't think I'm going to vote for this one unless it was a real "new build" as dhic001 suggests it should be. No, on this one I agree that the Prairie and the 28xx should be saved and not sacrificed for something which will have to be 80% new anyway. The 2-6-2T in particular is a very useful design for heritage railways and should not be sacrificed. However, I don't own it so its just my view. The other big problem is obvious: it does not have a name. The Public will be much less inclined to fork out for a nameless 2-8-0. This is where the County at least does have some kudos.

 

Love to see it running on the Gwili but we simply do not have a spare 500k at the moment. If you want a point at which the Gwili gets serious about an ex GWR loco it would hopefully be once the Carmarthen Extension is open. Until then any spare funds are better pushed in this direction, of course if an individual wanted to base it at the railway, that's a different matter, but the railway itself just doesn't have the resources at the moment (much as it pains me to say it).

 

Shoudn't Didcot focus on completing the railmotor, the Saint, the County, the King and Pendennis Castle before starting another 'new build'? Or am I been sensible?

 

William fj2

You are being far too sensible, stop it at once!

 

Sorry, I wouldn't make a good politician!

 

it strikes me that to build a 47xx is a pretty pointless exercise. On the mainline, it would be severley speed-restricted I would imagine having small driving wheels and being a 2-8-0 and it would be too big to be of use economically on most lines. Hardly anyone ever saw the originals and there was only 9 (was it 9?) of them anyway. It will spend most of its days on show at didcot I guess, overlooked by Joe Public as (As mentionwed before) it has no name,

Surely a replica La France or one of its sisters would be more sensible, it has a name, it is a reasonable size for the main line and preserved lines and would fill a REAL gap at Didcot ie the start of the Star story. There are plenty of other locos that replicas could be built of to help complete the story at Didcot, such as a Dean Single or a 2-4-0

I havent read the article, is it a definate proposal or a pipedream?

 

Speak for yourself, I saw all the originals. They were used regularly on reliefs to the West Country expresses like "The Royal Duchy".
They had 5' 8" wheels, like Manors & Granges, also 76079? which I believe will allow them to run at 60mph on the main line.

 

I think the cylinder block on 4115 isn't too bad; the one on 5227 is the one with a great big chunk missing out of it, although the amount of time they've all spent outside doesn't bode well for the exhaust passages. I assume that they intend to use the axle boxes and pony truck from the 28xx as well. I wouldn't try to look too much into the rationale behind the choice of components... It's like trying to find the plot in an avant-garde film.

Not forgetting 1363 & 7202.

 

I think it would be wise to finish the present new builds first, at the very least it could casue resources to be spread around to much...

Although a seeing a 47xx in full cry would be quite exciting.

Aside from the issues behind breaking apart 2861 and 4115 in the firstplace, what could the other parts of the two engines in question be used for? 'Maybe' the '5101's' standard 2 boiler (I feeling silly after eating to much chocolate) could be used for a Bulldog... More likly they might be used for spear parts for working engines I surpose....

 

Just wait till they announce the 'Great Bear' project. A Pacific will complete the set !

Bob.

 

You know what?... I wouldn't want to bet against that form happening! ;-)

 

The idea is to make a County tank using the boiler from 4115; it would also give you the radial truck, various tank items, etc. The pattern for the driving wheels already exists from the Saint, as does the pattern for the cylinders, although I think this would need modifying.

Likewise a County 4-4-0 would be built using the boiler from 5227, with the rest pretty much along the lines of the above.

I suppose if you were ambitious, the 66xx could yield the wheels and boiler for an early Aberdare.

Or if you really lost the plot, you could even think about overhauling Hinderton Hall... but I guess the extortionate cost (£50,000 or so) not to mention the excessive time it would take (maybe as much as 4 years) would probably put all but the most rational of people off.