Embsay P-Way - congratulations!

I'd like to post congratulations to our P-Way department on gaining their level 2 NVQs in track maintenance following assessment in a classroom environment and practical work.

I'd also be interested if any other Railways have gone down a similar route?

 

I think you'll find that most of the p-way gangs are on the mature side and the paper work side of it is what we're trying to get away from. Thats the joy of volunteering, track personal safety is enough.

 

Most people of my age refer to NVQ's as Not Very Qualified! !

 

Well Done

Embasy are to be congratulated on having the foresight to do this but they have one of the best PW gangs in the UK. The attitude that we cant be bothered with paperwork is why the heraitage railways have had regulation regimes forced upon them and quite rightly.

 

To be followed in due course by hand wringing about the decline in active participants in voluntary activities, as the burdens of the nanny knows best style of management are imposed on leisure activities.

Professionals standards and achievement yes - the full weight of bureacratic nonsense - a resounding NO!

 

A NVQ Level two is equiverlant to a gcse Grade C and above .
Embsay is one railway who i support fully and for them to have undertaken the nvq is a credit to them, they may not be a large line with large locomotives but it is one of the nicest railways i have visited

 

Since passing my 'A' level in ballast shovelling, I am now working towards an honours degree in fishplate bolt tightening.

Bob.

 

25lbs/ft, or ONC or 50lbs/ft HNC??? :smt102

 

You may knock the NVQ but it is the equivalent of 5 GCSE's at Grades A - C, it demonstrates the competence of the individual - how many heritage railways can demonstrate that their volunteers / employees have met nationally agreed standards? The construction industry has gone down the NVQ route and employers are identifying that as a result of following the NVQ route there has been a noticeable drop in accidents / injuries etc. I was at a construction health and safety seminar a couple of months ago and speakers from UCATT and the H&SE said that the first question that is asked by a H&SE inspector if there is an accident on site is "What qualifications had that person got and how competent is he (she)?" The NVQ is away for employers to demonstrate that competency. Whilst i don't know the NVQ route that the Embsay staff have followed i would imagine that it would be the NVQ L2 in Trackworking Operations - probably the same qualifications that operatives on NR would follow. I was a regular at Peak Rail for many years on the PWay side, apart from laying track, ballasting etc i drove a 22RB crane - the only training i had was "on the job" obviously people thought i was competent but what would have happened if there had been an accident how could Peak Rail have demonstrated my competency in short they probably couldn't have and then there would be the resultant issues of negligence and compensation, prosecution etc.
The Government have made available around £700m for training, heritage railways can access this funding (Train to Gain) for their directly employed staff and volunteers to fully fund (i.e. nil cost to the individual / employer) training such as NVQ or other business improvement programmes which could have a direct impact on their efficiency, effectiveness and safety.
Personally i would think that it is beneficial for any organisation to demonstrate the competency of its workforce - the NVQ offers this

 

When do you progress to Thwacking Keys?

 

To Merlin and Woodster

I know you believe what you have been told in all good faith, but some of us have been right through the machine and can see clear through this smokescreen of rear end protection, and "non job" creation promulgated by the consultancy and training industry in their own interests.

The corporate manual and seminars may well tell you what to do in a classroom environment, but if there is no-one to actually perform a workrole in a voluntary situation because potential recruits are sick to the back teeth of paperwork, corporatism etc in their real lives, then where has that got the activity concerned?

There is another thread on here bemoaning the lack of volunteers on another railway - read and think about it please.

A railway that espouses corporatism but goes out of business because it cannot resource itself due to alienating its potential workforce is nonetheless a failure.

A railway that trains its volunteer staff to a degree appropriate to its needs, but understands that there is a point where applying paperwork and procedures across all jobs will simply deter recruitment of volunteers will succeed by comparison. If you want to obtain an O Level and a budgerigar, then all well and good - you do it.

I have both professional qualifications and been driving tractors, and buses, and cars for over forty years - am I going to need a "trainer" to tell me how to do it in my spare time?

 

Nicely put, Frank, and right on the money. If someone asks the question, "What training has he/she had?" presumably the answer that he/she has been driving the particular machine without incident for 30+ years would be of no interest, because there is no paperwork.

A few years ago, myself and several other Severn Valley men undertook a training course at Kidderminster Training College to qualify us officially to drive the 6-ton steam crane, which, between the five of us, we had been driving a collective 180 years. The instructors were seriously impressed on the practical driving tests at how good we were. I did murmur politely, "When I told you I had been driving it for 25 years, which bit did you miss?" But I have a nice, shiny, laminated certificate now, which says I am officially competent, so that's OK then.

 

and people who belittle others efforts are called not very f*****g funny, thats NVFF.

 

Where does all this bolleau about paperwork come from.

The NVQ was obtained through practical assessment and is intended to give the volunteers concerned a bit of recognition for their efforts. The NVQ is in Railway Engineering Track Maintenance and is for NR p'way staff. The level 3 will hopefully follow.

The only paperwork was the creation of portfolio in support of the assessments. It was not difficult or over-taxing and the plenary sessions were very good for the guys because we don't normally spend any time other than working together on the p'way. The debate and interaction in these sessions was very rewarding for all concerned.

So, nothing to be scared of. Nobody was made to do the NVQ if they didn't want to and it came from the volunteers, for the volunteers.

Panic over.

 

Yes, thanks for the kind words on my and my fellow volunteers efforts.

 

To those who have done it for xxx years -so have I, but am not afraid to refresh, as some things HAVE changed over the years. There is a balance between onerous paperwork and practical work in any matter, and a little time participating in furthering one's interests does not have to be boring.
Yes, there can be too much paperwork, but please encourage those who want to learn, and make it interesting for them. Sometimes rethinking the accepted norm can save a life, and did so in the case of a friend of mine, who had done the same job for 30 years.

 

To those who doubt whether recording competence is worthwhile (and that is all an NVQ does) I have the personal experience of having RAIB walk into my office and request to see the files of some staff involved in an incident. The single sheets of paper (recording that the portfolios of practical work had been assessed and verified, including recording exeptions for past experience) saved what, in another similar situation on another railway, was a week of examining competency procedures for the railway invovled. 5 minutes or a week - I was glad that my predecesor had put a system in place.
I also know that it was not just me, but the staff involved who were grateful of something to prove we all knew what we should have been doing.

 

You have crystallised exactly what we are all talking about - a single sheet of paper saying that Fred Bloggs applied as a volunteer in the technical field of packing, jacking, adjusting, greasing and nut tightening.

It was found that he had done this job for x years,and on site was found to be proficient.

Full Stop - End of Story

Railway Records are in place for inspection

The job was not made into mumbo jumbo for those looking to take it up - and for new recruits you know that Fred will make a trainer.

Satisfies C21 paperwork requirements and the KISS principle alike

 

Ok then, I'll buy it. This piece of paper - who signs it off to say that the individual is competent?

 

The Luddites and cynics have are still alive and well, resisting progress.
I was professionally qualified (same as T bird I think) then retired and moved to part time employment. I completed an NVQ level 2 and was mocked for doing it by most of the old hands - micky mouse qualification, etc etc. I came to the conclusion that they were apathetic and a bit frightened, with no interest in ensuring they actually knew their job and cynicism was the easy option; but the few who took the trouble to do the course found it useful, filled gaps in knowledge and not at all onerous.
Interestingly there was a report today of a new NVQ in the trade craft of bakery that involved no paperwork at all for the person being assessed and that would seem a good way forward.