'Number 9s' predicament, what does the future hold?

What I really can't understand is... there are plenty of class 5&6 loco's 'out there' however, there are only two A4's. Also, A4's are perhaps one of the most breathtaking loco's that can be found. They are also very popular at gala's across the country, or seem to be, the two times I have been down to the NYMR behind 60007 the train has never been less than 90% full. (Rose tinted spectacles come off at this point sadly)
Financing however, looks to be a main issue for the bigger engines, there are several different examples of this. It would however, be fantastic to see 60009 back to full fitness running regularly.

 

heritage railways don't want A4's other than a couple of days at a gala - the SVR, for instance, makes it quite clear that class 4/5 locos are best suited for the line, with opportunities available for smaller locos - nothing about bigger ones!

 

The NYMR makes full use of 60007 when it is available and that is a bit more than the odd weekend. It did the same when 60532 was based there. They do bring Joe Public in, well, 60007 does, and easily cover the increased costs involved in running them. Whilst Cl8 is perhaps a bit of overkill, cl4 & 5 are on their limit on 7/8 coaches and cl 6/7 locos are really needed for the 8 coach diners.

 

You could argue on lines that need a bit more power that the likes of a 38XX/8F would be more suited to heavy trains at 25mph than a big pacific.

 

Exactly David, most pacifics are also more efficient at speeds of say, 60 or more, whereas a freight loco is most economical at 30 to 40, and I should think that an 8F is much less of a handful than an A4 at 25

 

Well said TBird. I am fully convinced that all the speculation on this thread, is just a load of hot air. I'm equally convinced that John Cameron WILL overhaul number 9 one more time.

 

next year we're probably going to have 4 LNER pacifics on the mainline (60007/19/4472 & 60163).. how many do we really need ?


Maybe give it a few years and then have 60532 and 60007 make a come back... besides wasnt there discussion around having 61994 running from Inverness to Kyle next year ? I'm sure that'll keep someone busy.

 

black 5s are a different kettle of fish entirely as they are of more use on a preserved line as well as being handy on the Main Line. I doubt a 5 would be idle for long.

 

I was talking about mainline registered 5's, is it three (?) with Mr Rileys on the way very soon and a couple of others next year.

 

yes but my point was that those 5s are more usable on a private line when not needed on the main line and therefore there is a better case for having several of them..(rather have several more Halls but hey...)

 

I agree. Time for a new build - 7930 That's Hall

 

yeah i vote for that....

 

No. 7 has worked on a number of heritage lines and, as Steve says, we use it basically week on/week off during the main season on the NYMR (the loco is contracted to the NYMR for the bulk of the daily running season). The loco diagrams are even designed around it being able to be used it is seen as such a vital part of the line's overall appeal! The first year it came as a visitor, we had record passenger numbers.

As well as being the "bean-counter", I am a flag-waver, not footplate staff, so the likes of Steve can comment with more authority but we have had 6 LNER Pacifics on the line over the years as well as 4 Bullieds at different times. The big locos manage 7/8/9 coach trains without the effort needed from Class 4 or 5 (there has been a debate I think on here as to the limits of Class 4s and 5s on the NYMR and the general view is 7 is fine, 8 do-able but the heavier 8 coach diner not advisable regalarly).

Now, you might say the NYMR is unique and few other lines have the need for such large locos but any line with a mainline connection could benefit commercially from a prestigious visitor and the A4s have just about the highest profile amongst the public of any Class (as opposed to individual loco). Not all lines have the axle limit to take them but they are not as heavy as many other Class 8 lcoos and many lines do now have increased axle laoding specifically to take visitors of this type.

The balance of a mixture of mainline and heritage railway use is the only real way most locos will pay their way (unless the Tysley option of very little use and hence hopefully very quick and comparatively cheap overhauls is followed). Demand may be limited but is there - it is no accident that Tornado is following this route.

Returning to No.9, I have no doubt that John Cameron will decide what is best for the loco in due course - and it does seem the initial premise upon which this thread started was a classic case of making 2 + 2 = about 50!

Steven

 

I'm sure that someone else will have statistics to prove things but I'd have thought that 4965 falls way behind the likes of 62005, 45407, 45231, 60163, 70013 in both days in steam and mileage. And that's not counting 825, 30926, 75029 and 76079 all of which are 'main line' registered.

 

a large 8p isnt that much more expensive to operate on a preserved railway than a 4 or 5 , i can remember firing SNG and we used less coal, than would have been the case with one of the mogols ,mostly because the engine did not have to be worked so hard as you would have it would have been the standard up front , the NYMR and mid hants are railways where use of larger engines becomes the norm rather than the exception because loadings allow it ,or the wear and tear of smaller engines makes a case for regular 7 and class 8 haulage

 

It's certainly true of the NYMR, but less so in the case of the Mid Hants, I would suggest. Trains on the Mid Hants are normally only five coaches in my experience , with six occasionally. The gradients on the Mid Hants are less, and the line is virtually straight, whereas on the NYMR there are some sharp curves on the Grosmont-Goathland climb, and the extra drag they cause slows the train markedly. A better example of a line where a larger engine can sensibly used is probably the West Somerset, where the routine loadings are heavier and there are some steep-ish gradients.

 

But the WSR seems to regard Manors and 28xx's as ideal for the line

 

Did I say they weren't? I said that the WSr was a line where, perhaps, a class 8 engine could be used sensibly, but that doesn't mean that for most purposes a Manor or 38xx will not be perfectly adequate, just a a Standard 4 or Black is fine on the NYMR.