'Number 9s' predicament, what does the future hold?

I guess it is line-specific. For example, on the Bluebell, our maximum loadings are 6 full-length coaches (though there are eventual plans for 7); max gradient 1 in 60; not massively twisty, though with the gradients, mostly at 1 in 75, fairly sustained for about 6 - 7 miles. With those restrictions, we classify a "large" loco as at least class 3 - anything bigger is more power than is needed. (Reference: http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/soc/agm2006loco_paper.pdf). Certainly the U Boat (4P 3F in BR parlance) has no problems with our train loads. The West Country / BoBs waltz away (especially in original form); I'll leave it to the accountants to argue whether the extra cost of running them is covered by their "wow" factor attracting extra visitors. Certainly the feeling must be that for a Merchant Navy - for us at least - the wow factor simply doesn't cover the extra cost, as witnessed by the fact that Port Line was moved on when it came to the end of its life (http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/loco_gone.html#port). I must admit I'm always a bit flumoxxed about how the Mid Hants runs even shorter trains than we do, yet operates with an A4, a Merchant Navy etc, but I guess it is their line and presumably they have done the costings and shown it works for them. The NYMR, with bigger loadings and steeper gradients is obviously a different case; though I'd supect something like an 8F would be more practical than an A4; whether it would have more wow factor is another question.

Incidentally, the other variable is weight per seat. For example, a six coach rake of Mark 1s is about 220 tons; six equivalent Bulleids or Maunsells would be about 190 tons for the same number of seats. The 4 Mets + Chatham 3rd + Brighton 1st seat around 250 in not much more than 100 tons. Apart from the obvious heritage delights of using vintage rolling stock, it's also cheaper to haul!

Tom

 

I'd agree that cl 6, 7 & 8 motive power is overkill on the Mid Hants but the use of such locos makes it easier on everything from footplate crews to locos. I'd also agree that an 8F is a more sensible choice of motive power than an A4 or even a Jubilee on any heritage railway. Little wow factor, though, as you agree. I'm regularly asked if I enjoy driving 60007 (on the NYMR)and my answer is always negative. I'd much rather do battle with 75029, 76079 or 80135, which are being operated to their limits. 60007 at 75 mph on the main line would give a different answer from me, altogether.

 

Being mainline registered and used on the mainline are two completey different things.
When you take into account 4965's regular stints on the Shakespeare Express, approx. 13 weeks at about 100 miles a week, plus her regular other mainline trips at about 200-300 miles a trip I should think that only, 35028,34067,60163 and 70017 come any where near the amount of mainline miles that she puts in.
And don't forget all the above engines are Pacifics built for express running whereas 4965 was built as a mixed traffic loco.
So show me another MT loco that puts in the performances or miles put in by 4965.
Any way back on topic, until Mr. Cameron or his official spokesperson confirms or denies the rumours surrounding No.9 maybe this thread should be accorded the same amount of sceptisism that some of us give other similar threads about other locos.

 

Don't think 45407 & 76079 are too far behind, even though 76079 is now on the NYMR.

 

If you go back just a few years, 73096 was covering alot of mainline miles.

 

Don't you just wish that this wasn't a typo error?

 

There are lots of variables to be taken into consideration here, but I would have thought the the hardest working locos on the main line are clearly those working the Fort william-Mallaig services. A loco there would probably run as many miles in a fortnight as the hall would in its 13 weeks of Shakespeare expresses, and be working far harder too - the fact that 62005 is being retyred fior the third time in preservation this winter is surely testament to that!

 

surprised no ones mentioned Tangmere... earlier this year it did a 1000 miles in a week on GB2 and it's been a silent workhorse out of London almost every week this year

 

Union Of South Africa

I don't know what will happen to USA hopefully it will Steam again when its current ticket expires. I am sure John Cameron will only have its best interests at heart he knows what a popular and well loved engine it is.
There is only one thing better than a A4 and thats two or three or four of them. Personally I would like to see it running side by side with SNG on the NYMR. If Mr Cameron does sell it wish I don't think he will do then hopefully the NYMR will buy it or Even the A4 Locomotive Society.

Well thats my view for what its worth.

 

Not a typo.....the 7and3 strangely swapped places on my keyboard!!!

 

I believe that 45407 and 76079 have averaged 15,000 miles each in the last few years, well over half on the mainlines. 62005 normally does over 5,000 - a full season at Fort William plus getting there and back amounts easily to this.

75029 had run 9,500 miles up to being withdrawn after the October steam gala for boiler work and 825 has run 7,780 miles to the end of October although how much was on Network Rail would be difficult to calculate without the full records!

Steven

 

I'm regularly asked if I enjoy driving 60007 (on the NYMR)and my answer is always negative. I'd much rather do battle with 75029, 76079 or 80135, which are being operated to their limits. 60007 at 75 mph on the main line would give a different answer from me, altogether.[/QUOTE]

I wonder Steve if you had an opportunity to drive Green Arrow and wether she was more suitable for the Moorsline . Then we just need someone with very deep pockets to pay for a monobloc !! Being a unique loco she should be a crowd puller .

 

I wonder Steve if you had an opportunity to drive Green Arrow and wether she was more suitable for the Moorsline . Then we just need someone with very deep pockets to pay for a monobloc !! Being a unique loco she should be a crowd puller .[/QUOTE]
I had 60800 (as it then was) for one day on a previous visit. It certainly is an impressive loco but, again a bit of a caged tiger. well up to its task on the NYMR and giving the feeling that it would be even more so if it could go faster. However, of all the memories of that day, the one that stands out was the shear number of people/photographers there to see it on the hillside at Darnholme. I've never seen as many before or since!
If you're wanting a Gresley loco that is suited for the job, then look no further than the Marquess. It takes some beating. If only Gresley had fitted reverse sands to his locos......

 

I suppose we have to recognise that we are currently living in a cold financial climate. Ideally we would want as many mainline loco's as possible for a wealth of tours. Will 2010 be a good year for those tours. 2009 was a vintage year as many staycationers opted for a steam trip. Will they return in 2010 or have they "ticked the box?"

Set against that is the cost of returning USA to mainline condition. Would a sensible businessman do that at this point in time. I doubt it. Maybe a period of reflection will follow and this loco will be restored to it's rightful place in time. Then we will flock to celebrate it's return.

 

It has been reported on another website that No 9 is to be overhauled and readied for work in 2011; something to look forward to.

 

As I said, difficult to judge - if the diagrams consisted on purely Grosmont - Pickering - Whitby - Grosmont, about 25%. However, on most days, one Whitby loco does the three Whitby trains between Grosmont and Whitby. On peak timetable, it also does one Grosmont to Pickering return, so that is 50% mainline mileage. On Red days, it just does a Grosmont to Goathland return plus the Grosmont to Whitbys, so that is 80% mainline mileage. There are also the occasional days to Battersby (rather more regular this winter, though not just at the moment!), so I reckon at least 1/3 on Network Rail - not in the Riley or K1 sort of mileages but still quite a bit (and not at full mainline speeds, I would accept as well).

Sounds like good news on No.9 if confirmed.

Steven

 

Can anyone add more detail to this report ?

 

From a very reliable source I understand the good news about No.9 is correct. I think the speculation about the sale of the loco was well wide of the mark.

Good news indeed.