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Bulleid Pacifics - Past or Present

Discussie in 'Steam Traction' gestart door 34007, 13 mei 2008.

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  1. twr12

    twr12 Well-Known Member

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    When we wieghed 34028 and 34070 earlier this year, with Colin and Chris from Rileys. Both locos weighed 90 tonnes. With the same boiler water level.

    So I don't think the rebuilding process added much weight!
     
    twr12, 17 nov 2009
    #801
  2. std tank

    std tank Part of the furniture

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    Taken from an Ian Allan ABC: -
    Unrebuilt Loco 86 tons
    Rebuilt Loco 90 tons 1cwt
     
    std tank, 17 nov 2009
    #802
  3. twr12

    twr12 Well-Known Member

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    NMYR calibrated weighing equipment:-

    Unconverted locomotive = 90 tonnes
    De-tuned locomotive = 90 tonnes
     
    twr12, 17 nov 2009
    #803
  4. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    90 tonnes = 88.75 tons, was that the figure that was measured?

    According to the Bulleid Society:
    Original weight = 86 tons
    Modified weight = 90 tons 1 cwt.

    Could there have also been a change in weight distribution (i.e. axle loading) during the rebuilding?
     
    Martin Perry, 18 nov 2009
    #804
  5. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Axle weights as follows :
    As built the weights for first series were :
    bogie 15t 10c
    leading coupled
    18t15c
    centre coupled
    18t 15c
    trailing coupled
    18t 15c
    pony
    truck 14t 5c
    total 86t 0c

    From 34071 the weights increased to :
    bogie 16t 4c
    leading coupled
    19t 5c
    centre
    coupled 19t 16c
    trailing
    coupled 19t 4c
    pony
    truck 13t 9c
    total 87t 18c

    As rebuilt the weights were :
    bogie 17t 8c
    leading coupled
    19t 15c
    centre coupled
    20t 18c
    trailing
    coupled 20t 14c
    pony 12t 18c
    total 91t 13c
     
    Spamcan81, 18 nov 2009
    #805
  6. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    Thankyou for a most comprehensive answer! What made the difference between the two batches of original locos?
     
    Martin Perry, 18 nov 2009
    #806
  7. Richard

    Richard New Member

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    You are overlooking the main difference between the rebuilt and original – the valve gear!

    It is not just the axle weight of a locomotive that restricts route availability – the hammer blow caused by the motion is a major consideration.
     
    Richard, 18 nov 2009
    #807
  8. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Answer courtesy of the SeMG as I still can't find my RCTS "greenie." From 34071 onwards the locos had a wider cab and obviously the extra sheet metal and framing added weight.
    To see the different cab profiles compare 34070 to 34081. 34067 was built with a narrow cab but received a wider one when restored to running order.
     
    Spamcan81, 18 nov 2009
    #808
  9. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    Interestingly the weight on the pony truck goes down in the later batch! - was there an attempt at weight redistribution to reduce the tendency to slip?
     
    Martin Perry, 18 nov 2009
    #809
  10. KentYeti

    KentYeti Guest

    I see that 34036 has been viewing this thread!

    Travelled behind that loco a good few times, including three times in the week in July 1964 when Fred Hoare, (Salisbury mpd), and Pete Allen were the crew on the 07.49 ex Salisbury, prior to them working the down ACE with a Merchant Navy. Light trains but on all three days that loco was in charge we did Basingstoke to Waterloo in a net time of under 47½ minutes. Good stuff.
     
    KentYeti, 18 nov 2009
    #810
  11. buseng

    buseng Part of the furniture

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    buseng, 21 nov 2009
    #811
  12. Bulleid Pacific

    Bulleid Pacific Part of the furniture

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    I got one of the 50 shareholder's prints of 34053 by Richard Green in the post whilst I was away 'Clan Line' bashing on Saturday, so only found it in the garage today. Very impressive it is, too, and will look nice in a frame.
     
    Bulleid Pacific, 23 nov 2009
    #812
  13. Sheff

    Sheff Resident of Nat Pres

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    Wow - best bit of video I've ever seen on there - amazing that this still exists. I wonder how they filmed the valve gear - I've never seen it in motion before as it's normally covered by the oil bath cover - looks like something out of a textile mill! Thanks for posting it.
     
    Sheff, 23 nov 2009
    #813
  14. Bulleid Pacific

    Bulleid Pacific Part of the furniture

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    That clip also features on TVP production's 'Bulleids in Retrospect'. A pretty good dvd, really.
     
    Bulleid Pacific, 23 nov 2009
    #814
  15. Sheff

    Sheff Resident of Nat Pres

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    There's more ...

    OK - not his Pacific's, but more amazing footage -this time of Leader http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDZ2NEPragA&feature=related

    Take a look at the sleeve valve drive - the way all three are linked looks like a form of Gresley's conjugated gear? Seen plenty of stills of this, but only now do I understand how it worked.
     
    Sheff, 23 nov 2009
    #815
  16. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    That is an incredible piece of design work!
     
    Steve, 23 nov 2009
    #816
  17. Bulleid Pacific

    Bulleid Pacific Part of the furniture

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    I believe the oscillating gear that rotates the sleeve valves in the clip for even spread of lubrication was a bit too complex for its time, and was dispensed with during the trials.
     
    Bulleid Pacific, 23 nov 2009
    #817
  18. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    I stand to be corrected but I'm certain the oscillating gear was not dispensed with during the trials. The sleeve valves were given a full overhaul to try and make their operation more reliable but I can find no mention of the gear being modified or dispensed with.
     
    Spamcan81, 24 nov 2009
    #818
  19. Sheff

    Sheff Resident of Nat Pres

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    You're right, looking again that's the oscilating gear you can see, to even out wear. The valve events would be from the chain drive behind etc which would move the sleeves for and aft I guess? So to ocsilate three sleves, all going in diffrent directions, by a single mechanical drive was always going to be a challenge. IIRC the lug extensions on the sleeve that picked up the ocislating gear were prone to fracture and indeed they gave up with this feature in the later trials. I'll get my books oput and confirm tonight.
     
    Sheff, 24 nov 2009
    #819
  20. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    If you're right, there's a web site or two that will need updating. Will be very interesting to learn what your books say on the subject.
     
    Spamcan81, 24 nov 2009
    #820
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