7760

Anyone have any news on whether tyseley have managed to sell this loco yet? Magazines seem unusually quiet on the subject since they announced sale!

 

This raises a point that perhaps someone can clear up. From the article in Heritage Railway by Michael Whitehouse it seems possible that Kolhapur might be for sale as well as the pannier. As these locos are presumably charity assets (7029 Clun Castle Ltd, being a charity), does it mean they have to be sold to another charity? Or is there a way around this, say if the very survival of the charity depended on it?

Cheers me dears
Lordy

 

Charities must have charitable aims that are for the public benefit. I do not know what the specific aims of this charity are but I presume an asset sale could be considered appropriate if retaining the asset is not essential to achieving the charity's aims and the proceeds are applied to achieving those aims.

Museums often have an accessions policy which states the criteria for accepting or rejecting new items for their collection. In certain circumstances they may also decide to 'de-accession' items which they may have acquired in the past but which no longer fit their current aims & objectives.

 

I think it was also mentioned at the time that the 7760 sale was announced, that Tyseley was deactivating it's museum status to become a dedicated engineering/restoration centre. I'm guessing that this would also then allow the sale of any assets, if the management thought this was beneficial.

The above is from memory, so apologies to Tyseley if I have got it wrong!


Keith

 

Once any article of importance is a charitable asset then it will need the consent of the Charity Commission prior to disposal.

If the article is a principal subject of the charity's aims then any final destination must be of similar charitable or museum status.

Equally any sums realised must be applied to the continuing aims of the charity, and should a charity be wound up then the sums raised in disposal must likewise be applied to charitable aims.

 

Anyone heard any news on the sale of 7760 and Kolhapur?

Lordy

 

Correct me if i'm understanding wrong but... in short.. if anyone's donated money to a project, and the project sells an asset.. the money donated will remain within either the cause, the charity or a similar minded charity ?, not someones back pocket - in which case nothing to worry about ?

 

I don't remember seeing any reference to selling Kolhapur - have you got a source for that info?


Keith

 

I reckon someone looked at a magazine article by Michael Whitehouse a few months back and has put 2 n 2 together and got 5, he did state the question that maybe large ex Swindon loco's would be more suitable for Tyseley with the Jubilee more desirable elsewhere, that however was just an opinion/question rather than statement.

Personally i'd hope Kolhapur could be looked at once 7029 is overhauled, after Leanders exploits with VT a few years ago im quite fond of the class.

 

Don't forget Galatea's coming...

Not much chance of Bahamas for a good few years though.

 

Where on earth did the rumor that Kolhapur is for sale come from???? Someone’s been visiting the funny lady in the tent – you know the one with the cloudy crystal ball!

Kolhapur is in line for overhaul right after Clunn. And unless someone wants to cough up quite a lot of cash, Kolhapur will be back in LMS maroon livery.......or so I was told by the aforementioned lady…..

 

er wasn't the sale of Kholaphur mentioned in a recent Heritage Railway article?

Yes I know that does'nt make it reliable! - until you mention that the article was written by one M. Whitehouse himself.

 

No... it was hinted at as a possibility in the future as Kolhapur doesn't fit in with the GWR theme however it was not said that she is for sale.

 

My apologies for assuming too much. I’ve gone back and re-read Michael Whitehouse’s article - you might understand why I thought 5593 was for sale!

After saying it was ‘on the edge’ of the collection in the eyes of the trustee shareholders, he went on to say they had two options. “First to dispose of the loco for somebody else to repair and operate it, or second to permit a group of volunteers to launch an appeal and raise money and gradually repair it so that it can be used among the Tyseley collection at some future date.”

“The commercial price tag for acquisition and repair to first class main line condition for 5593 would be something in the region of £1.2m. This is not just a made-up figure as the trustees have undertaken an examination of the engine and costed, in commercial terms, what would be required to return the engine to Network Rail’s main line condition together with an appropriate valuation for the sale price. Looking at it this way the disposal of 5593 would provide a useful capital injection to continue to develop the Vintage Trains GWR brand. Just a thought?”

So although I might have misinterpreted somewhat, I think you can say some detailed work by the trustees has gone into the idea. Anyway if TYS have got to sell 7760 to fund Clun Castle first, I guess 5593's overhaul will be some way off yet.

Cheers

Lordy

 

any chance of getting back on topic guys? anyone know whos bought 7760, if shes been sold.

 

I do not see Kolhapur being sold- after all it was one of the original 2 Tyseley engines and would surely be a good complement to Vintage Trains excursions into LMS regions.

I recall the boiler not being in fabulous condition and likely to need a lot of work; indeed it was mooted at one stage that Galatea's boiler may be borrowed- this is obviously off the table now with progress being made at Carnforth. It is a shame that when Alberta was stripped for spares the bolier was not retained.

LMS red would be the only colour it could possibly go- for sure the Brunswick Green its in right now does not look the right shade in any case.

 

At the time it was bought, the boiler was probably no worse than the one on 5562, I was told many years ago by a LM boiler inspector that the judgments were made on tyres and boiler, and 5593 had almost new tyres at the time which basically settled the choice. Pat Whitehouse is known to have said the same. Choices were that simple in those days.

As for colour, it is way off beam, that is what you get when a band of photographers are allowed to repaint engines for photo charters and go off to ask for Brunswick green. The correct colour is not Brunswick green, later BR green was very much akin to Bronze green, and the fact that everyone thinks the colour of 5593 (which is actually a very good match for Brunswick green) is wrong, is more than enough to prove the point.

 

Personally I don't think it didn't spend long enough in Post War Black and straw.

 

The trouble is for the most part the terminology used to describe paints. Until the coming of the British Standards, different manufacturers had their own names for paint colours and one firm's Brunswick green would be different from another, if they used that name at all. I believe that BR officially called their green passenger livery Brunswick Green. Whether it was the same as the GWR green, which, according to Haresnape, was officially Middle Chrome Green, I don't know. We now have BS4800, BS381C and RAL standards. The only one to specify a paint with the name Brunswick Green is BS381C and that gives three choices, Light Brunswick Green, Middle Brunswick Green and Deep Brunswick Green. No standard lists a Middle Chrome Green although BS381C does have a Deep Chrome Green. I would suggest that none of the standard colours mentioned above are an exact match for the elusive BR passenger green. It is also likely that the different works mixed their own paints and the shade would vary from batch to batch.
The only loco from BR steam days that I can think of as having not been repainted is 34051 and I might be wrong with that although there is also the mock up cab from 71000. Someone at the NRM will have matched the paint and will be able to tell us which is the best standard reference to use. Others on this Forum may also have that information but, whilst we continue to specify Brunswick Green, Olive Green, Bronze Green or whatever, we will continue to have locomotives of all shades.