Lightning Crash in SA

A tragedy. Seems pilot was unable to eject safely.

 

Very sad and tragic news, aircraft can be rebuilt, pilots can't.

 

This is the report on the accident. It would seem that the ejection seat service had been put off for 75 days.

http://www.aviationcentral.co.za/?p=655

Regards

 

Hydraulic failure in a plane with no backup manual flight control system compounded by ejection seat failure. Not much chance for the pilot.......
For those of us who would wish to see a Lightning in the sky again in the UK, I think this accident removes any remaining chance.
It remains to be seen what the relevant South African aviation authority(ies) make of it. It would be a terrible shame if Thunder City's operations suffer......

 

To delay scheduled servicing of a Critical Item is inexcusable. As far as blocking the operation of Lightnings (imo one of the most incredible aircraft ever built) in the UK is concerned, I would suggest that as long as maintenance records can show correct following of procedures, then there should be no problem. There might be a tightening of auditing procedures, but that should be all.

RIP the pilot, and (belated) condolences to his family & friends.

 

IMHO there never has been any chance the CAA would allow a Lightning on the UK civil register. I was associated with a group - non working member I hasten to add - attempting to pit a T5 back in the air. Every time the group came close to achieving its aims the CAA
moved the goal posts so in the end it was sold to Mike Beachy Head and exported to South Africa. I would love to be proved wrong but I think the idea of a Mach 2+ interceptor in anything other than military hands fills the CAA with foreboding.

 

Completely agree with 'The Saggin' Dragon' here. Although through the 60s and 70s the Luftwaffe lost loads of Starfighters and were the butt of any number of jokes here in the UK, proportionally to the size of the fleet the RAF lost as many Lightnings.

Private aviation has traditionally been done on a shoestring, and I suspect that cost cutting is the problem here. Personally I wouldn't wish to be in Mike Beachy Head's shoes right now. I would imagine that the deceased pilot's family are consulting 'learned friends' and it may well be that a breach of criminal law has occured too. Lousy Christmas all round.

Regards

 

I've read somewhere that the fact that the flight control systems are hydraulic only and have no manual backup prevents the Lightning and other types with the same characteristics (including the Buccaneer?) from being given a certificate.

 

This was the reply from a senior member of the Lightning Preservation Group based in the UK that stil fast taxi their two lightnings on a forum some time ago.

Hi, I have answered this one before but here goes

Forget any sort of flight in the uk, sorry.

Are you sitting comfortably with coffee in hand ? []

If Id have had £1 every time someone had asked me that over the last 20 years we could have built 3 Q sheds from scratch by now.

Ive sat here for ages and put my thoughts down on this subject, I have posted this on the forums before now, they are in no particular order so read away:

Firstly and most importantly there aint the spares in the UK for Lightning operations, no zero timed engines, jets pipes,reheat pipes, oleo's, brakes, chutes, Air turbine gearboxes, hyd pumps, reheat pumps, engine starters, Avpin the list goes on and on and on, belive me.
When I say 'zero timed' I mean, 'bagged and tagged' in hermetically sealed bags with all the paper work, there aint any, and if anyone says there are they have no idea what they are talking about.
Ive heard people talk of engines and pipes and other very important items with only a few hours on them, yep they exist, but they have been stood uncovered, some outside, untouched, for years, RR would laugh you out their building.
I know there could be an argument to say 'well all these items could be overhauled' but there aint the back up spares, some of the items above are just not around any more, they dont exist outside of the preserved 'live' airframes, most other Lightnings have stood outside for 20 years, not good for anything that may be left inside em
The airturbine gear box for instance, a very very important and finely balanced bit of hardware, I can only think of 5 servicable ones (ground runners) in the UK, they are our two, one in T5 458 at Cranfield, the one in 724 at Binbrook (an unknown quantity) and the one in the F53 down at Gatwick. Do you see what I mean.

Ive been around these beasts for nigh on 20 years doing all the engineering and other 'stuff' and keeping our two alive (XR728 and XS904) and more importantly funding it all is enough for a hobby.

One of the many reasons 558 was given the green light was due to her having tons of spares which included and 8 zero timed engines,in hermetically sealed bags (RR wont support the engines past a certian amount of hours remember) this all came along with her when Dave Walton brought 558 from the RAF in 1993 (basiclly the RAF's stock of Vulcan spares)
When Lightning operations finished in 1988 most of what was left went in the skip, some (the good stuff) went to BAE Warton to keep the four Lightnings flying untill 1992, then all that was left went to Barry Pover and is now in SAfrica,and rightly so.
Differnent rules apply in the other countries, the CAA in the UK are naturally concerned about Lightnings and I know why.
In other conutries the US and S Africa for example differnent rules apply the UK CAA work differently and in my opion they work correctly when it comes to complex types they need OEM support, and look at where that has got 558, costing a fortune

Mike Beechyhead owns his own commercial jet maintance business and has the staff and infrastructure to support his hobby of old milatry jets, although even this wont last forever he is also getting to the stage of 'time ex' with parts, engines, jet pipes and airframes. All can be overhauled of course but the costs are just over whelming
I can imagine the costs to put one lightning in the air in the uk be equal or even more that of what 558 has cost so far, and look at how difficult funding for that has been and continues to be, and thats for an aircraft that most of the public can rememeber, ask the man in the street about a Lightning, most will be silent...... or say 'a what' ? or 'oh yeh that twin boomed thingy from ww2',.... I rest my case, nobody outside 'our' world of loving old jet aircraft gives dam or could care less whether they see them fly or have all gone in the skip, I speak with considerable experince, In my every day work enviroment with 12 other guys not one gives a dam about what I and my fellow LPGers do with our two old ladies, football and beer is the general topic of conversation

Its taken us 15 years to raise the £120,000 spent so far on the Q shed !
Its so very hard to get people interested and aware of what we are doing, then its another matter when getting some people to part with some cash, even a fiver.

You then gotta get BAE to support the whole Lightning thing after they packed it in in 1992, Narrrrrr forget it, you would be on a hiding to nothing


There aint the airframes in the UK with any usable FI left, (The F53 at Gatwick is the lowest) it would mean airframe updates to give any of them some more 'hours',(there's no designed and tested FI updates for Lightning airframes), 558 had mods to her wings, but they were 'known' mods
Most of the 'good' Lightnings in the UK went out to near the 4500hrs maxium limit.

I cant imagine the costs involved in the design and testing to prove extending the hours on 45 year old airframes that are at their design limit that have all stood outside for 20 years.
BAE just wouldnt do it, and why should they
There's good reasons why they only have 4500hrs on them, (some were given antoher 500 hrs to push them out to 4500) its a very highly stressed airframe, pulling G that a vulcan can only dream of.

All the goodun's are in S Africa and the US (XS422)
Barry Pover was the closest to getting there with XS451, spent years and hundreds of thousands of pounds and got know where, ended up shipping out to SAfrica 10 years ago with 451,452,693 and 773 along all the ex Warton spares.

The in service Lightning saftey record was pretty dismal even with the RAF 'machine' keeping them in the air, maintaince hours were knocking on for 100hrs per every 1hr flown and the CAA know this.
They lost loads to all manner of in flight accidents, fires etc. nearly half the production build was lost to inflight problems, resulting in a one way trip out to sea usually

How many other aircraft can you think of (apart from the Starfighter that had such a high loss rate)
How many Vulcans were lost ?

It has a much much better safety record and also to chaps up front.
Limited fuel from take off, 45-50mins 'internal' total if your very careful,15-25 mins if you keep the taps open at low level, no control back up systems, all the important fuel and hyd lines wrapped around the engines and jet pipes with hyd and fuel flash points lower than the JPT, all just dying to leak, in a nice fine mist, with no fire protection in the jet pipe bays, ummmmmm.......
A 200 mile an hour landing speed, mimium 7000ft runway length if you lose the chute or brakes all on tyres at 320/350psi that look like they came off an Austin 7

I cant begin to get over just how complex a Lightning and its systems are, a true 'on the edge' aircraft if there ever was one.

If you would like to visit us at Brunty for a talk 'under the wings' as it were I can show you exactly what I mean

Just be happy with what is out there at the mo, and savour our aborted take off runs at Brunty we have been doing it since 1990 and they wont last forever.

Belive me my fellow LPGers and I have worked so hard to keep our two alive and to rebuild Wattisham's QRA hangar for them to live in,we will continue run them for as long as is safely possible, we are 'in the know' as it were.

Please dont shoot me down for these thoughts of mine,they are not meant to be negative but these are the facts, we in the LPG are dedicated to preserving and funding Lightnings and an original QRA shed, I think we are at the 'sharp end' and can honestly say we can do no more
It was never our aim to fly ours, just to preserve them as a hobby, no more no less.

When we first bought 728 in 1988, no one cared that most of the lightnings were being smashed up and smelted, the ones that were saved by guys like us are still around because we care about their long term preservation, if it werent for a few of us there wouldnt be any runners let alone flyers.
Big long shot ideas about flight have never entered our tiny heads

Keep an eye on my little news thread and our webs site

Lightning Preservation Group Based at Bruntingthorpe Airfield near Leicester

Lightning QRA Hangar (Merged)


Cheers all
Andy B (LPG)

 

Must arrange a trip to Bruntingthorpe......

 

Thank you, Andy. Great post. Much is now explained.