New built replicas.

Isnt the Mid Hants converting their J94+Tender into a Black Motor look a like ?

 

Apparently so, although I rather suspect (with the greatest of respect to those involved) that it will look a bit of a mongrel. There are far too many significant differences between an austerity and a proper Black Motor to overcome to make it proper. Its not even like these Great Western conversions that are the vogue at the moment, there aren't any real common components.

Its like the Polish TkH's; people say they are a Yankee Tank lookalike. No they're not, they're a TkH!

 

Didn't you know the Bulleid Society are planning a Leader? The Bluebell Atlantic is actually going to be outshopped as "Hartland Point" to test the sleeve valve cyclinders, and will be scrapped once that proof of concept has been done. (ducks and runs for cover...)

Seriously, with regards a Black Motor - that would be nice, and eminently practical for most preserved lines. Moreover, you could build Black Motor 0-6-0, M7 0-4-4T and K10 4-4-0 using a lot of the same major components (boiler, cyclinders, motion, driving wheels etc), making the production of two extinct classes (Black Motor and K10) and helping sustain the M7 at less cost than doing any one individually.

Tom

 

Indeed - just because it's got 6 wheels and a tender doesn't mean its going to look like a Black Motor. The people doing it have evidently no idea what a Black Motor looks like; and no respect for the historical integrity of the Austerity Tank, which deserves preservation in its own historical context.

I'd be a big fan of a Black Motor - but a converted austerity isn't it.

Tom

 

A J94 working is better than not at all.

I'm too young to have seen a black motor, in fact i didnt know what one was until I read about their project.

Whether it is or it isnt.. the fact there having a go means someone like me doesnt need a photograph to imagine, even if it's not perfect I can see it.

So for me I think it's a good idea.

However I also think the original idea of "what if we added a tender to a J94" was a very good "what might have been".

Even though the MHR J94 (T) has it's issues..that's what R & D is all about thinking, doing and solving problems.. and the result was most likely the same outcome that the designers would have had in the 1950's if they too had decided to make a prototype 0-6-0 Tender version J94... if MHR go on to solve those problems then it shows what world of possibilities could have happened.


So either choice is good in my opinion

 

Seriously, with regards a Black Motor - that would be nice, and eminently practical for most preserved lines. Moreover, you could build Black Motor 0-6-0, M7 0-4-4T and K10 4-4-0 using a lot of the same major components (boiler, cyclinders, motion, driving wheels etc), making the production of two extinct classes (Black Motor and K10) and helping sustain the M7 at less cost than doing any one individually.

Tom[/QUOTE]
this what i was eluding to,in another posting, have frames that are suitable for multi use, after all, take any 0-6-0 how many engines would use the same size wheels and cylinders
or as close to as to not be noticable , the general public would not care, and if i am honest nor would railway people, as long as the end result looks identical to the real thing the fact that it might have slightly bigger cylinders or the driving wheels are 1" bigger/ smaller would not be noticed, i wouldnt mind if it meant that you could enjoy a pre grouping engine that was lost and would make replica engines more viable, after all one day the older engines in our care will be worn out and a cost effective replacement will be needed

 

A Claud Hamilton in GER livery
http://www.lner.info/locos/D/d14d15d16.shtml

or M&GN liveried B&P C class

 

The problem is, when you go to photograph - you still won't know what a Black Motor looked like, so you'll still have to imagine! You might as well say she's a Dean Goods or a Collet Goods or Midland 4F - right number of wheels, albeit the wrong size at the wrong spacing and the wrong proportions, and the wrong detail fittings etc. Drummond was something of an artist as a designer and even the Black Motor, humble 0-6-0 as it is, has a certain elegance of line. Whatever you say about Austerities (and for the conditions they were built for, they were an excellent design), "elegant" simply doesn't come to mind.

That's fine as well - but if you are engaged in R&D, have the confidence to call it your own design rather than pretend it is something else - for which you have to admire the WSR who don't pretend 9351 is anything other than a new design, albeit with nods to Collet who sketched out a similar tender version of the large prairie.

Tom

 

Me too. A great pity none of these ever came near to preservation.

 

Regarding the Mid-Hants Austeri-Motor, as Jamessquared says the trouble is I strongly doubt that the proposal will result in anything that looks that much like a Black Motor. Have a look at this:-

http://www.semgonline.com/steam/700class_01.html

From an Austerity, even looking at it in rough terms (1) driving wheels wrong size and spacing, (2) boiler completely different dimensions, (3) boiler pitch wrong, (4) distinctive lengthened smokebox; how are you going to modify that without knackering the draughting, (5) front overhang. And that's just a few major things off the top of my head, without getting into details.

I can't help but think that it will just look like a bastardised Austerity with a BR number.

 

I'm thankful for what we've got & is being built! But I would love to see some of those elegant engines of the 19th C. thats why I'm pleased they are building the Bloomer at Tysley, though of a slightly earler period.

 

I would sugest the monster Great Western 2-10-2 tank engine, that only existed as a possible design.

 

Robert Heath 6 wheeler!

 

Ralph, I've been involved with the 5AT on the periphery for several years. My money's ready when they are!

 

A few notes re the 5AT :-

I can't but think that, although the concept of a 125mph cruise steam powered train is OK, the 5AT is too small to be able to do that and haul a paying load, ie at least 10 Mk3/4 air-conditioned carriages and a back-up diesel. And does it also have to be the ugliest duckling around?

( I say Mk3/4 carriages above because Mk1/2 carriages are not permitted to travel at more than 100mph)

Personally I would have thought a very much larger, multi-cylinder, engine was required - if not a turbine, and I would doubt if the traditional suspension systems with which the 5AT seems to be equipped would be up to the job as well. I would prefer the engine to take on the appearance of the A4 or 'Coronation' streamlining.

Sorry if this offends the 5AT community ...

Regards

 

I've always wondered why they called them 'Black Motors'. I know they were black, but what about the 'Motor' bit of the name? And just remind me, did they share the same boiler as the M7, hence why they called those 'Motor Tanks'?

 

To be contentious- a Midland Flatiron would be my choice!
A Midland Railway 0.6.4T would fill a gap in the ranks of preserved locos, even if some consider them ugly and they were not success full at high speed running, that wouldnt be a concern on most preserved lines...

 

Brand new BR standard 3MT, although I would be heavly tempted to number it '77014' rather then 77020...

Brand new GWR '54xx' 'auto' 0-6-0PT to complete the set of '54xx', '64xx' and '14xx'...

A replica of 'Lion's' sister, and other early machines would be nice as well.