Sheringham Link

What is the restriction on usage of the crossing? Is it a set number of days per year, trains per year etc.? I can imagine that both traffic wise and because it is a manually signalled crossing, it can't be too regular but would a Holt to Cromer service be permitted on a hand-full of days per year for example (quite apart from whether it would be viable)?

Would it be perhaps right to say this is stage one and future stages would be changes at Cromer to allow longer trains and perhaps upgrading the crossing to allow much more regular use?

Finally, at Cromer are the platforms track circuited? The cross-overs (as I have suggested elsewhere from looking at aerial photos) look far enough along to permit longer trains that the 5 plus loco each end used on Thursday, but this would just about fill the platform, so is there a track circuit protecting the points that also enforces this limit?

Steven

 

So far I beleave that 12 trips a year is planned for the crossing.

 

Don't mention the orbital railway, it's been a pain in the NNRs side in regards to the crossing from the beginning.

Any restrictions on the crossing aren't really a problem, the main aim is not to have so many crossings that nobody wants to come to the NNR on a train anymore or end up annoying the people of Sheringham too much.

The issue with anything leaving sheringham for cromer is that we have nothing that is up to mainline regs so would need to hire stuff in. National Express could alway run one of their units from Cromer to Holt say early in the morning and in the evening in the summer, some of their drivers are drivers on the NNR so might not even need a seperate NNR conductor driver.

I believe the issue with train length is indeed track circuiting as was the case when a HST came to sheringham many years ago, although it was a lot easier to get around the problem back then.
Any changes beyond the NNR boundary would undoubtedly cost a lot of money as we'd have to use NR approved contractors etc but who knows what might happen.
As for changes to the crossing, it might be possible in a few years time once the crossing has been used a large number of times without incident to upgrade it, if so NR might use the NNR station as the existing one is too small but that is very much a wait and see what happens.

From an NNR point of view it would probably be more use to get into Holt properly than to mess around with cromer but that would take a huge amount of money with the NNR would probably never be able to find.

 

I know what you mean, from other experiences.

 

so how is the crossing signalled then? Did they have to put in more axle counters before the corssing to allow a train to exit out of the Sheringham-Cromer section at the Sheringham end?

 

No extra axle counters at all. It's a nice simple system of the driver of the train phoning trowse box and saying that he's gone over the crossing with the train intact complete with tail lamp when he arrives at Sheringham.
Going back to cromer he does the same when he gets to Cromer.

Nice and simple but really.

 

That's exactly how things work running into Whitby. We just get on the phone to the signalman and tell him or her that the train has arrived complete with tail lamp and the token is back in the instrument. I find it wryly amusing that, even today, trains are reported as arriving complete with tail lamp.

 

So presumably the Trowse signalman can over-rode the axle-counters - it did cross my mind that the section from Cromer to Sheringham would otherwise be shown as "occupied" on Thursday which 70013 and train were on BBr metals, and a guest loco spending several days or even weeks on the NNR seemed capable of blowing the system's mind!

The difference on the Whitby branch is that it is still electric token, albeit driver operated. Hence, an NYMR train disappears off the national network mid-section at Grosmont but the signalling for the section is locked by the token (that is now returned to a mid-section token machine, but was taken back by road before this was installed to the token machine at Glaisdale) rather than by axle-counting doing a Brian Hanrahan and "counting them all in" but not able to "count them all out"!

You really do have to hand it to BR and Network Rail as to the wonderful innovative yet simple solutions they found for signalling the extremities of the network!

Steven

 

The axle counter blocks we are installing on the Jubilee Line can be reset in the event of a mismatch in the number of axles in and out of the block. In that instance a train is used to 'sweep the block' at low speed (17kph I recall) and then normal operations can continue. In the case of the line to Sheringham, I expect the confirmation phone call to the signal box would be sufficient for the block to be reset manually.

Regards,

Dan

 

Who was firing the N7 and N2? On all of the videos i've seen on youtube, they both seem to be continuously blowing off. I was always taught that safety valves should only lift once a day - on shed to prove they work and that any waste of steam would result in a Form 1 - "PLEASE EXPLAIN". If its down to NNR coal, please let me know what type it is so i can get some for my engine!

 

Perhaps you should go volunteer and go show them how its done!

(The smoke smells like Daw Mill to me)

Jim S

 

If i had the time, i would. However, the lure of Road Steam is too great

 

The N2 needs its safety valves fiddling with. Once they are open they don't shut until it is down to about 120 pounds. And the firemen were all drivers, both are very experienced enginemen.

 

Sounds like the springs need replacing. Surprised the GCR didn't sort 'em when she was overhauled! Does the N7 still have a lovely set that "pop" up and down cleanly? Used to also sound lovely when the snifters shut - you know it was time to reduce the regulator to avoid slips etc.

 

Returning to the Orbital (if one may), who actually owns the trackbed from Holt to Fakenham?

 

Good question, mixture of private owners I would guess.

 

Are you involved with road steam? if so what type engine?

(I have a sentinel s type).

Jim S

 

Yep, the council at the Holt end as that is where the bypass was built, supposedly with enough room somewhere to extend the line if required although it might need the bypass moving over a bit so that'll be nice and cheap then.
The rest is private owner. Part of the line from Holt to Fakenham and the line from Dereham to Fakenham run through Pensthorpe Nature Reserve and they have said before that there is no way a railway is going back there and rightly so it's a cracking place to visit and does a lot of good conservation work.

The best you could hope for really is to extend into Holt proper with a simple station there and maybe running a park and ride operation say with the DRB, LEV or 101 in between service trains.

 

Your are right with the holt bypass, I have heard that now the crossing is done, extending to holt is the next big big thing. Once past holt it will be quite easy as there isnt much in there way till the next station, well nothing major.
Small part on the former holt station location there is still the cattle platform and buffers in the industrilal area.

 

Personally I'd rather see us 'finish off' the 5 miles we have first. There are still many projects ongoing or planned, including the platform buildings on platform 2 at Sheringham, footbridges at Sheringham and Holt, the goods yard at Holt and the picnic area and tidying and development of the land at Holt to name a few.

We also have a number of loco restorations in progress and a backlog of overhauls, particularly on the diesel side, to undertake. I think I'd rather see the NNR spend its money on developing what they have and ensuring that we have the locos, carriages and facilities to see us into the future, before we think about increasing the 'burden' of maintenance and stock requirements by extending the line.

Never say never, but I think it would have to be a long-term goal.