Returning a Bulleid Merchant Navy to as built condition

Of course they do - But working & knowledge of them seems to be an issue here - I've seen many struggle with the Steam Reverser (Especially in the dark)

 

I not convinced recreating a Orignal spec Merchant Navy is a great plan, partly at the moment casue gernreal unrealbity. Even now despite improved conditons which as allowed Tangmere to be one of the most reliable engines running, they can still be a pain in some respects. Wadebridge present valve repairs have casued anoyance among the Mid Hant's engineers for example. It would cost a alot as well. And how different is the orignal Merchant Navy to the unrebuilt 'light pacifics' apart from being more powerful...

L1 4-4-0 please!

 

General unreliability? 34092 and 34067 have flown the flag for Spamcans on the main with a fair degree of success over the years so with the knowledge gained from the operators of these locos, I see no reason as to why a brand new Merchant Navy would fare worse than its smaller brethren. Bring it on I say.

 

I also say bring in on but would there be a big enough following to pay the cost of un-building a MN to main line conditions? It's one thing to overhaul a Barry wreck which now costs a arm and a leg but to un-rebuild a MN is not far from make a new loco which is in a different league all together.

 

Well the LNER supporters built an A1 so it would be up to the SR lads to achieve the same with the MN. Oliver Bulleid was a charismatic character and his locos have a hugely loyal following so I think it's possible. Now if the A1 lads go on to build a P2 and a proper MN comes back from the dead, I'll be one very happy bunny.

 

What parts would you need to de-modify and what parts would you need to remake?

Thanks

 

Er, there is an electric lamp above the reverser scale and handle. So why does dark make it a struggle?

 

Throw away all of the Walschaerts valve gear and replace with Bulleid's chain driven gear including sprockets etc. and refit the oil bath. The middle cylinder will have to be replaced and a steam reverser fitted. Cylindrical smokebox to be replaced by a fabricated one and air smoothed casing refitted. I'm sure there are other detailed differences that need to be reversed but I'm just back from the pub and the mind's a bit foggy.

 

Think spamcans got the Gist, from your rebuilt MN Barry Wreck you get to keep the Frames, wheels (but the balance weights will need to be removed) most of the axles, axle boxes, cab, most of the fittings (what fittings, its a wreck). and the boiler, (unless you want to operate as God intended in which case youll have to go to Menningen for one which can stand 280PSI which is pointless as its more power than the thing can get onto the track) Then with the kind of dilligence and Precision that went into Tornado the cylinders , valve gear chain( or hang on didnt he want gear) drive etc might actually work as intended, maybe even the Steam reverser might too... chuck the silly Lemaitre out and get a geisl on to get the smoke clear and hey presto... that ll be about two million please...

Sounds negative but dont get me wrong ...I have a picture of channel packet with the full casing (after initial modifications) and to me it looks MAGNIFICENT, but if its Just the look we are after cant an existing original condition WC/BB be given the full bodykit to look like one of its older, heavier brothers ?

If we are out to have an original Spec Bulleid MN, the fact /problem is that this locomotive exists in an 'Improved form' and a 'light version' and that ticks the box for those who arent out and out Bulleid fans who are a niche within a niche.

I wrote to the NRM bemoaning the fact that whilst hundreds of thousands were spent restreamlining a Princess Coronation ( by using the absoloutely correct gauge of steel) no thought was given to Ellerman lines, the non cut up side could have been restored to its as built apperarance and, with Mallard, formed a fantastic Juxtaposition... and the answer was 'we already have a 'spamcan'

For me a 1960's BR Condition Spamcan, Like a 1960's BR Condition A4 only hints at the beauty of the originals, they are beach buggies that were once Beatles... and unless we can get lots of images of the original form in front of Joe Public (i dont even think there a 00 guage model available) the popular demand isnt there and its down to the dozen or so people on this forum with the Desire and know how to get this baby moving (before they are driving them on the big railway in the Sky), to get some dosh.
Because of the extensive nature of the rebuild and the fact that a merchant Navy is a Mainline job, not suited to pottering round on a preserved line, its going to take a serious lottery win...

 

I'd love to see an as built MN. If it is made then should it be the original as 21C1 or 35001 Channel Packet.

 

The problem with that is that an MN is slightly longer than its little sisters, so would not look 'right'. Also, the washout plugs on the mid-firebox would be wrong, as the MN has a bigger firebox. It goes to the question and answer: "Who'd know the difference?- We would!" If we were to do this, we should at least make a proper job of it, using modern-spec materials only where they have proved their worth on the unrebuilts currently in service, ie. oilbath seals, better welding practices, stronger chains, better seals on the steam reverser etc. Personally, I'm not too sure about fitting a Giesl oblong ejector, despite its advantages over the Bulleid dustbin...

 

Glad youve pointed this out, the Pictures of MN'S with Casing on do posess a certain Gravitas that the WC/BB'S seem to lack and being larger at the firebox/cab end would account for this.
Whilst there are still people around to do the job properly then i agree that is how it should be done. The geisl is an idea that may or may not just lift the smoke a little better, and there is a little precedent in one being tried out on a BB i believe in service. We'll have to wait and see whether its retained on City of Wells (therefore proving its worth)

 

Now we are talking cosmetics... im sure it could appear as both, but as its a restoration rather than a new build it should really be what it once was...
As a new build the current trend would see it called 'Merchant Navy', Painted Navy Blue, lined out in red and white and flying Red ensigns on the Buffer beam and a Lifebuoy on the smokebox door... and whilst this is a petulant pop at the Patriot it would probably look raaather smart, perhaps the Senior service would even chuck a few bob in too.
,

 

Call it "Royal Navy" and the senior service could probably be persuaded. "Merchant Navy" - I doubt it. Or how about 21C31 "Royal National Lifeboat Institution"? They benefit from an immense amount of goodwill, and can teach anyone a thing or two about collecting from the British public.

In a way it's a pity that 35006 is already preserved, as P&O might be up for sponsoring a rebuild (to pull demonstration intermodal freight using their containers, of course)
Would 21C3 or 4 attract funding? Naah; Royal Mail have other problems to worry about, and Cunard are now US-owned and probably wouldn't be interested. I don't know of another MN namesake company that still exists, do you?

So to me, it looks like you'd have to trawl the south-west commuter belt for an SR equivalent to Richard Branson, i.e. someone with shedloads of money and a keen eye for PR opportunities, plus in this case a Dad who remembers the Spamcans. Otherwise, I just can't see it happening.

 

In the 'shed loads of cash' department we have Mr. Hosking, who seems to be favouring the Southern at the moment. Was it not "reported" recently in one of the comics that he was interested in purchasing a 'Battle of Britain' locomotive for him to complete the set (and I don't necessarily mean the controversy over an alleged interest in 34081, which has since proved to be untrue)?

 

The interest in 34081 was real believe me but for reasons of confidentiality I won't say why a deal wasn't struck. It would have been nice to see 34081 on the main line but on this occasion it wasn't to be.

 

Ah well, there's always 34073 instead...

 

Can I just say that there was never a formal "Merchant Navy"; it was simply a 'catch-all' for UK-flag merchant ships, as opposed to the 'Grey Funnel Line' aka the Royal Navy. Sadly most British shipping companies have either shut down (Clan Line, Union Castle, Canadian Pacific, Blue Funnel, Elder Dempster - to name but a few) or have now got foreign owners, such as Cunard. Hence no, or little, support for a new-build to be called 'Merchant Navy'. Yes, 'Channel Packet' was a catch-all too, not a specific shipping company, but at the time was quite a clever piece of branding, imo.

 

Please do not spoil a good idea by making it look like 21C1 as initially outshopped. That original look is ugly ugly ugly. The later form as carried to BR modification time is quite handsome.

 

Also drivers of a superstitious nature would not drive it if the early inverted horseshoe was put on the smokebox instead of the roundel... I'd say any condition between 1945 and 1956 would be good, with the potential for malachite, blue or Brunswick.