BR wagons not yet represented/underpresented in preservation

With recent clear outs of old BR built wagons, it got me thinking that many types are not presented in preservation at all, or are represented by only a single example. Air braked wagons seem to be the worst affected. A quick list below highlights some examples:

Vacuum braked:
ZCV "Tope" - underframe at Bluebell. No complete examples preserved. Only one example surviving on the national network (970159 at Ince Moss)

ZCV "Clam" - one example preserved at Rushden. Four examples still stored on the national network (973221 at Stafford, 973226/227/337 at Carstairs)

Air braked:
RRA runner ex-Bogie trestle wagons (numbered in the 990xxx series). None preserved. Several stored at Tees Yard

MKA "Limpet" ballast wagon (numbered in 390150-331 series). None preserved. 7 examples still stored on the national network (390196 at Newport, 390312 at Exeter, 390167/195/204/214/259 at Margam)

HGA ballast hopper (numbered in 390501-672 series). None preserved. Few dozen still stored on the national network.

ODA pipe wagon. One preserved. One other (113026) stored at Stafford - I did think this had been preserved by the Glos-Warks, but does not appear to have moved there.

OTA timber wagon. One preserved. A few still stored on the national network.

ZCA "Sea Urchin". None preserved. Several still stored on the national network.

FFA/FGA freightliner flats. 1 preserved by NRM. Several still stored on national network.

HAA MGR hopper. 2 preserved. Many still stored on national network (although very few from the final 1982 batch).

HEA hopper. 1 reserved for NRM. Several still stored on national network.


This list is obviously not complete and does not include any private owner wagons (e.g. PGA hoppers are nearly all gone). Is anyone aware of any examples of the above preserved that aren't listed, or any lines/groups that are looking to purchase any of the above? I am surprised a few more of the ballast wagons haven't been saved, as they would probably be quite useful to preserved lines. A freightliner flat could be used to transport rails. I suppose the HAA/HEA/OTA would be purely for display purposes, so can understand why few have been preserved. However, it would be a shame if the above types went extinct, as the preserved diesels currently have few wagons not from the 1950s or 1960s to operate with.

Of the above list, I would probably prioritise the Tope, Clam, Limpet and RRA/trestle as highest priorities due to the very small numbers left.

 

Not strictly on topic but what was the fate of all those Frightliner barrier wagons that were ex-loco hauled stock underframes? I recall they were mainly BR Mk1 56' ex-KX subs with the body removed. Saying that were any ex-SR Maunsell/Bulleid underframes ever saved (for other uses) that were converted by BR as car carriers and barrier wagons in the 60's?

 

Two ex-SR underframe car carriers are preserved:
94117 at the Glos-Warks Railway
94123 at the Swindon & Cricklade Railway

 

Very much a matter close to my mind at the moment, thanks for your thoughts.
Cheers
Anthony

 

This is something that's concerned me for a while. I don't just mean the older stock thats still lying around on the network as Phil suggests but also the current modern stock and those beyond. I think in 50 years time there will be a huge gap in rail representation at heritage sites, with most just regurgitating what they currently have. I admit this will be down to the fact that such stock will not be suitable. I really can't see a pendolino on a heritage site in the future or a rake of 100t coal hoppers on a demo freight train!
As much as I would like to see some of the engineers wagons Phil has mentioned saved, these are really body conversions from reduntant underframes, so don't have that total originality. However it would be nice perhaps if the NRM could save one of several examples of these for a display, detailing the conversions and why they were considered useful for the engineers department.
There are still rare items out there to be found. I've recently come across a NER 15t Box Road Van with double tranship doors to diagram G4. Although its only a body it looks in good condition and is incredibly rare and unique. Currently in a field as a home for a donkey!
So for the future? With nothing modern represented of our railways. I just missed steam being born in 66' but I do feel a sense of nostalgia for all railway interest from that era. However how will the youth of 50, 100 years in the future feel? It won't be a case of visiting a line and experiencing 'yester-year' it'll be more like 'yester-millenium' and will probably be quite alien for them and certainly have no feeling of nostalgia. Will our Heritage sites just turn into working museums that no one in the future can relate to?
Steve

 

Steve, I think this is a very important issue you've raised. But playing the realist - where's the money coming from?

For example, the HST is perhaps the most significant item of rolling stock of the last 30 or 40 years. Currently, you can still ride one as intended - but for how much longer? Once they are gone - who's going to commit to preserving what would essentially be 2 locos, 7 or 8 monocoque, air-conditioned carriages, plus presumably something for a stock of spares? That's a lot of commitment to take on. Anything less - say just having one power car - is simply not feasible; having fewer than say 5 - 6 coaches just won't look right. But a train that big won't fit in with most heritage lines (apart from being expensive to move around), so your also looking at keeping it mainline-certified, which is more expense. Moreover, in preservation terms, there's a lot of difference between something like a 1930s wooden carriage on a steel underframe, and a 1970s one that is an aluminium monocoque.

Similarly, my local freight trains are generally a class 59/66 and a good few 100-ton stone hoppers. How do you preserve that in any realistic way? I'm sure in due course the NRM might consider a loco and wagon, but that still isn't a very realistic representation of today's railways. And a loco that is air-braked only isn't much use to most heritage lines, unless someone also preserves a rake or two of airbraked carriages.

Whereas preserving steam or early diesels and contemporary rolling stock, you can limit your commitment to a single engine or item of rolling stock and be reasonably sure that you can run it in a reasonably realistic fashion with stock preserved by others. So I'd suspect that in the future, we'll still be able to present reasonably convincing picture of our railways for any time from conception up to the early seventies, but anything later will at best be represented only by static items in museums.

(The complexity of modern machines leads to a similar problem in aeroplane preservation. Given availability of fuel and oil, aeroplanes like Spitfires and Tiger Moths will probably continue flying indefinitely. But your days of seeing a Panavia Tornado or B52 or EE Lightning or even a Eurofighter are probably numbered - once the military stop flying them, they'll be museum pieces only).

Tom

 

A big shame that one of the Blue Pullman sets didn't get preserved?

 

I realise that the NRM have limited space at York and/or Shildon, but it appears to be me that modern rolling stock is being neglected. The only air-brake stock I can think of that they currently have is 1 x HAA hopper, 1 x TDA bogie tank, 2 x FGA bogie freightliner flat. They also have only one Mk 2 coach. There are therefore huge gaps in what is represented. As discussed by others, there will be some more modern items that preserved railways don't want (e.g. JUA bogie aggregate wagon, 1960s bogie double-deck car transporter), so unless the NRM or RHC step in, they are likely to be lost forever.

Would it not be possible for modern items to be designated and then displayed at somewhere other than the NRM site? For example, the OTA timber wagon is at Bo'ness. A railway in Somerset could have an aggregate wagon for display (link with Yeoman/ARC quarries), etc.

 

There are huge gaps in the ranks of preserved vehicles from the 1830s-1960s too. It's impossible for the NRM in particular to keep everything, so they have to pick a representative selection showing the various design developments etc.

I agree with the general sentiment that more needs to be done to preserve modern items, the problem is where? At least steam engines and the less fragile carriages/wagons can be loaned out to heritage railways; I can't see many of them ever being interested in these more modern vehicles, as they're largely incompatible with their present stock and don't have the same following from the public.

To give an example, I suggested (quite seriously) that the pair of class 319 units which formed the first train through the channel tunnel should be designated - the reply from the RHC was that they'd already designated the nameplates, and that to designate the whole units would cause problems when they came up for refurbishment. In my view, that's the whole point! I can understand the conflict, but also where would you keep an 8-car set of (what will by then be) clapped-out EMU stock? Incidentally the two units concerned are now running around minus nameplates/plaques, I hope someone has them safe somewhere, but it's a shame that this slice of modern railway history seems to be being quietly forgotten.

Imagine the value today if we still had the complete 'first train' from, say, the London & Birmingham...