Mystery narrow gauge line near Watford.

Afternoon All,

More years ago than I care to remember, I came across, and photographed, a narrow gauge line near Watford. I have often wondered what it was for so I have now put the picture on my Fotopic site in the hope that someone will be able to enlighten me. So, here it is (click on the picture to enlarge it and see my comments in the caption) :



If anyone can tell me more about it and solve a fifty year old mystery, I would be delighted to hear from them!

 

i've found this if it helps you
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colne_Valley_Waterworks_railway

 

Ron,

A little searching based on 'Taliesin's' suggestion reveals that the line is viewable on Google maps: http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=51....1.645584,-0.400974&spn=0.002513,0.007489&z=18 - not sure where it ends though, perhaps around the housing estate called 'Byewaters'?

I have also found this site http://www.lostlines.fotopic.net/c856640.html which by a remarkable coincidence contains a photo taken on almost the same spot as your mystery photo! As you assumed, the footbridge appears to be gone now along with some of the fencing.

Hope this helps


Keith

 

The chimneys in the background suggest this line is the link from the Watford - Rickmansworth LMS branch to the Colne Valley Water Company's Eastbury Road Water pumping station used to supply coal.I lived about 1 mile from here from 1947 until 1961 and can remember the steam pumps working,beam engines I think,there was another steam pumping station at Watford Fields close to my primary school.I can remember electric pumps being brought into service although I believe the steam stations were kept on standby for several years.The Eastbury road station was camouflaged (I think I've got the spelling right !!) and was quite close to RAF Northwood,then I think Coastal Command HQ and later a NATO HQ.
Colin

 

Further to my previous post, a bit further along the branch a standard guage siding ran across Croxley Moor to a paper mill,Dickinsons I think,which was served by both the Grand Union Canal and the railway and I can remember a fireless steam loco shunting in the mill.
Colin

 

Hello Colin,

Many thanks for your comments regarding the mystery (no more!) narrow gauge line near Watford. It turned out to be not where I thought it was! I had, erroneously, remembered it being near the Grand Union Canal and had assumed, also erroneously, that it was something to do the Dickenson's Paper Mill. Which just goes to show how wrong you can be!

Interesting, though, that there was a branch / long siding of the Watford - Rickmansworth branch which did go to the Dickinson's Mill. But on which side of the canal was the paper mill? I have always assumed that it was on the Croxley Green side; hence the famous Croxley Script writing paper. So did the siding cross the canal? There is a bridge by the lock; was this once a railway bridge? Or was the mill on the other side of the canal? Questions...questions...!

The course of the LNWR Rickmansworth branch now seems to be a footpath or cycleway and it, and at least part of the Dickinson's siding, can clearly be seen in aerial views. The Google map and satellite view show it well, and they both have Rickmansworth Church Street station marked! Anybody going there to catch a train into Watford is going to have a long wait!

There are a few pictures of the Ricky branch on my Fotopic site and here's one. Clicking on the picture will enlarge it and take you to the others :



I assume that this view is looking back towards Watford and the fixed distant is the advance protection for the junction where the branch diverted from the Croxley branch. I am also assuming the bridge, no longer there, is the lane leading to Brightwell Farm. Do correct me if I am wrong!

To have got to where I took the picture of the narrow gauge line, I must have walked through the exchange sidings. Unfortunately, I have no recollection of doing so!

Ron.

 

RalphW wrote :

"45669, looks like the mystery is being solved..."

Yes...ain't the Internet wonderful?!

 

Does this map help? http://www.ponies.me.uk/maps/osmap.html?z=14&x=-0.4307842254638672&y=51.650832787350104

Hope the link works, otherwise start from scratch at http://www.ponies.me.uk/maps/osmap.html

 

It certainly does - thanks very much. It shows that Dickinson's Mills were on the south-east side of the canal, served by the branch / siding off the Watford - Rickmansworth branch.

It doesn't show the exchange sidings or the narrow gauge line, though. However, it does seem safe to conclude that the bridge in the picture of the standard gauge line is the lane leading to Brightwells Farm.

Ron.

 

Ghost wrote :

“A little searching based on 'Taliesin's' suggestion reveals that the line is viewable on Google maps: http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=51.6...,0.007489&z=18 - not sure where it ends though, perhaps around the housing estate called 'Byewaters'?”

This seems to be where the Dickinson's paper mills were at the end of the standard gauge branch / siding.

“I have also found this site http://www.lostlines.fotopic.net/c856640.html which by a remarkable coincidence contains a photo taken on almost the same spot as your mystery photo! As you assumed, the footbridge appears to be gone now along with some of the fencing.”

The 'rusty gates' visible in one of the shots on this site are also visible in my 1960 shot! Albeit from the other direction. As you say, one of the shots is very similar to mine except that mine is taken from further back. There is a comment that 'there used to be a wooden footbridge at this point' where the photographer was at the time.

A correspondent on the RM Web forum informed me that the footbridge in question had come from the 'Never-Stop Railway' which ran at the British Empire Exhibition at Wembley in 1924/5. There is a fascinating bit of silent film of the Never-Stop Railway on the Pathé News website :

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=8750

“Hope this helps. Keith”

It certainly does! Thanks, Keith.

Ron.

 

Thanks, Taliesin. Very informative.

 

Hello Ron,
I'm afraid I can't help you with the location of the bridge but its not the Watford end of the branch which was on a low embankmenk leading to a bridge over the River Colne prior to reaching the Croxley junction and the power station coal yard and EMU shed,but a fixed distant signal suggests the Rickmansworth end of the branch.
Sheff's O.S. clearly shows the paper mill between the canal and the River Gade,a narrow lane led from the lock,Common Moor lock,up to the Watford - Rickmansworth road close to Croxley Met.station.Interestingly the map pre-dates the pumping station and narrow guage line to the branch.The pumping station was on the site shown as a disused paper mill.I think Eastbury road had become Hampermill lane by the time it reached pumping station.Croxley Moor might actually have been called Common Moor,but I'm not sure.
About 0.5 miles West of the lock was a London Transport/Met siding used for dumping spoil ex London,I can only remember ex G.W. panniers being used,this was on the North side of the canal.Incidendally my Grandfather was Station Master at Croxley Met.in the 1930s/40s.My main line trainspotting site was at the South end of Bushey troughs. Colin

 

Try this map - it's supposed to be around 1945 http://www.npemap.org.uk/tiles/map.html#509,193,1

 

Hello Colin,

Thanks for your further comments. As you say, the map clearly shows that Dickinson's mill was on the south-east side of the canal with a lane connecting it to the main road by Common Moor Lock. One map shows this as Mill Lane which is a bit of a clue! The bridge over the canal by the lock was, presumably, the vehicular access to the mill.

As to the bridge in my picture of the Watford - Ricky branch, there are four possibilities. From the Watford end, there are two very close together near Brightwells Farm. It could be either of those, I suppose, as I could have been standing in between them. The fixed distant does suggest that I am looking towards Watford as the junction with the Croxley Green branch is not that far away round a left hand bend.

The next bridge towards Ricky is Tolpits Lane, but why would there be a distant signal there, fixed or otherwise? The track does bear to the left at that point and the junction for the Dickinson’s branch / siding is soon after the bridge. However, would this have been fully signalled, or would it have been just a simple ground frame? Fixed distants were usually working distants that were ‘fixed’ when lines were downgraded and signalling simplified. So was that junction operated by a proper signal box and the line operated as two block sections with a passing loop in earlier times? (More questions!!)

The only other bridge was where the LNWR branch was crossed by the Met & GC, but I’m sure that it’s not that one. So, the thick plottens...

Going by the number sequence of my slides, the branch line picture is R432, the narrow gauge picture is R433 and the shot of Church Street station at Rickmansworth is R434. Provided I numbered them in the correct order at the time, the branch line shot was taken before the narrow gauge shot, so it must have been at, or near, the exchange sidings. Wish I’d taken a few more at the time; that would have helped!

I too went to the London Transport Croxley Tip to photograph the pannier tanks. Am I right in saying that to get there the ‘road’ access was a bumpy track that continued off the end of the aforementioned Mill Lane? Those slides are still in the ‘awaiting scanning’ queue but they will, one day, appear on Fotopic.

In the meantime, as you mention Bushey Troughs, you might be interested in this :



As usual, clicking on the picture will enlarge it and take you to the Fotopic collection where you will find nine more.

Once again, thanks for your help.

Ron.

 

Hello Sheff,

Thanks for the link. That’s the best map so far! It shows both the Dickinson’s branch and the narrow gauge link to the pumping station.

I think that we can safely say that the mystery of the narrow gauge line is well and truly solved. I just wish that I had taken a few more pictures around that spot showing the exchange sidings, though.

A few more pictures would also have helped to identify the mystery bridge. Somebody must know which one it is!

Ron.

 

Having studied the maps and considered all the contributions from 'Springers', 'Sheff' and others, I have come to the conclusion that the mystery bridge is the westerly of the two that led to Brightwells Farm. This is the one that came out onto Tolpits Lane. I can only assume that the distant signal was protecting the loop or junction where the Dickinson's Paper Mill went off and I was therefore looking in the Rickmansworth direction.

I am also basing my conclusions on some notes left on my Fotopic site by another correspondent.

Of course, I am happy to be corrected if my assumptions are incorrect!

Ron.

 

Glad you found it, because I couldn't. Can you give me a few clues as to where it is on that map plse?

 

If you follow the line eastwards from the Junction where the branch / siding to Dickinson's Mill goes off, the line goes under one bridge (Tolpits Lane) and then there are two more bridges quite close together. I think (think, mind!) that I was between these two bridges facing west towards Rickmansworth.

I am, however, open to correction...

Pity that they're not still in situ. That would have made identification easier!

Ron.

 

Hmm - still can't see the narrow gauge there Ron?