The Red Dragon

If it remains as it is now it should be at the front for the outward run.

 

Well dining is usually at the front from Tyseley so seems likely you are right and southbound it will be at the front

 

There is still a trip to Chinnor which could mix up the stock again. Anyway, for the Doric Olympian the stock went from Tyseley to New Street via Aston that morning anyway according to the stewards, so we can't really know for sure.

 

we saw 6201 speed past hullavington up the 1/300.here the diesel sounded 'dead'.this appeared a complete contrast to the run to bristol recently.i would just like to say though a couple of years ago during march,6201 hauled a huge train,13coaches and a totally 'dead' class 47 or 57 diesel attached to the rear up (or down) the west coast main line over grayrigg and shap!!we were just above shap wells and witnessed this massive train attacking the 1/75.i've never or heard anything like since.this is just how things must have been on shap during ww2.so my point is if the diesel was pushing hard all the way on its return going on my expriences with 6201 i would have thought the run back should have been a 'doddle'

 

It will do direct from Tyseley to New Street so that 6201 will not be under New Street station plus also the tour starts at Tyseley and not New Steet

 

My video either side of the Swindon stop.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6gV9_MNLjo

 

"Lizzie was in good health during the whole trip....." thats the comment from the support crew.

 

whilst your all moaning about this tour, just think of the great efforts that go into planing a tour by the organisation (vt) and toc (west coast) and planning from network rail, i understand peoples disapiontment, but just remember that for every tour that is planned everyone involved would like a good run everytime,
but so much depends on a good run, coal, loco, timings and crew, so youv,e all had a moan, lets wait and see what the comments are from the people in the know, the longer the tour the greater the risk,

 

Billy balls, I hope that you noted before using my quotation in your post that I have in that same quotation paid due respect to Vintage Trains for running this tour! Not many railtour operators would have had the bravery to take on a tour of this magnitude & if Vintage Trains promotes something similar I would still be extremely tempted. That doesn't stop those on board wanting an explanation for the significant diesel assistance and reversal of the train on this tour, which wasn't provided on the day by stewards and to date hasn't been provided by VT now. It's simple customer service to do so in any industry when the customer hasn't quite got what he expected. If there was a genuine operational reason for this then I think all of us would be satisfied and happy.

 

I am not sure where people get this idea of "significant diesel assistance" with the exception of Mike Notley I was closest to the back and all seemed quiet.

What would be the point in timing the train if assistance was being given?

Another point, surely pushing the train from the back could ensure a significant risk of overrunning signals and causing a SPAD.

Dave

 

The driver of the leading engine has control of the brakes, so IF the diesel was pushing the driver would see on his brake guage that an application had been made and would shut off

 

A couple of recent responses ask if the diesel was in fact pushing. I was in the second last compartment in the last coach except the brake and I had my head out quite a lot during the return trip. I personally observed plumes of exhaust and engine noise from the 47 on five separate occasions on the return trip. There are also two clips up on utube, one through Swindon and one on Hatton, both on the return trip, which clearly show diesel assistance. What would be the point of timing the train? My point exactly.

 

I don't believe 6201 was assisted at all on the outward run but on the return it was very different. The diesel assisted out of Swansea, it assisted on the climb away from Severn tunnel, leaving Challow loop (which is flat, the train hit 60 mph in under two miles-completely impossible with a train of this load). From Oxford station I believe 6201 was under it's own power and put in a very good start to stop run to Banbury, however from Banbury the diesel assisted significantly from every station stop and slack. At Hatton, yes 6201 got itself under way but within half a mile the diesel kicked in and gave an almighty shove up the bank. I was in second from last coach and had my head out occaisionally and saw and heard the diesel working. I also monitored the GPS throughout and the acceleration difference when the diesel was involved was very noticeable. When the diesel kicked in there was also a noticeable shove which could be felt in the carriage.
As I said I don't believe the diesel assisted out of Oxford to Banbury and the run was superb but with the other involvement there is an element of doubt which is a shame.

 

ok then, the loco didn,t perform on the return of this tour due to the miss handling of the fireman.

 

I'm pretty sure that the 47 was assisting after Oxford. I was window hanging for the return trip and although you couldn't hear the diesel you could see the smoke from it, at times there was some serious clag. It was interesting to note that the diesel appeared to only assist after Lizzie had made a restart, especially noticeable on the Hatton Bank.
To add to the bad coal debate, I did notice that when there was large amounts of drifting thick black smoke speed fell dramatically, I couldn't see any signal checks so assume the fire was not quite right.

 

the fireman on the return from swansea was fireman morris, thats how i know this is fact not an accusation.

 

one of the footplate crew got off at Cardiff on the return, he was wearing a black hat but I don't know his name. I don't think the Meanley's were firing on the way down. Someone on the train said Bob was firing the castle and went back to Tysley with it.

 

I believe Bob was the guard on the way back.

Dave