Tornado - Border Raider - 24th June 2010

Great work everyone - some nice memories of a grand day out. Sorry for spoiling your footage at 4.50 Austin

 

Tornado passing Langho the late running Border Raider

http://www.flickr.com/photos/garstangpost/4733717254/sizes/l/

Best Wishes Tony

 

In the old days of British Rail and the Charter train division I know of many instances of the Much maligned David Ward or Bernard Staite arranging cabs home (including to the South Coast) for passengers stranded by late running charters at the Railways expense.

 

Personally i'd say it's rather rash of the person booking to not factor in allowances for late running when making arrangements, trains running late is not restricted to charter operation, admittedly 2 hours is longer than you'd expect to allow for, but i never book on trains where i have to travel miles to a pick up for good reason.

 

Have heard there was a lot of water left in the tender after the 90 mile run from Preston.

I wonder if anyone does comparative water calculations these days? Would be interesting to know what some of these main line locos need for a specific distance. I know that Clan Line's run to Salisbury in May saw only 500 galls left at Salisbury, (83.7 miles). Albeit with a very heavy load and a couple of stops.

But reading through some old logs on the Railway Performance Society web site, (this part for members only), I found a Schools class run from Bournemouth to Waterloo in circa 120 mins for the 108 miles. 415 tons and I couldn't see that it had stopped anywhere! That is some going for a small 4-4-0!

 

As enthusiasts we know the risks of tours running late but these tours are now sold mainly to the general public who don't.

 

Correct. Some comments on here do stagger me with their naivity.

 

I guess the climbs before and on Shap would have used a bit, but you are right Ralph. Especially if it was largely unchecked running in the 60s and low 70s.

 

There seems little that can be done if delays arise from unexpected events - such as the water supply being cut off at Carlisle by the water company which I understand was the cause of the problem. I agree that once it had lost its path on the S&C it was difficult to correct but I wonder what else the team could have done to ameliorate the delays. Certainly the train was 60 minutes late as it passed Ribblehead and - despite a stop at Long Preston for more water - as it passed Euxton at 19:44 it was running about 75 minutes late caused by [a] having to follow a slow Freightliner mgr service between Hellifield and Farington Junction where IIRC there is no opportunity to loop the slower service in favour of the steam hauled service and clear the section beetween Clitheroe and Blackburn to allow the local train to be reversed at Clitheroe and follow almost immediately behind. One can only congratulate the crew on their attempts to claw back time but it seemed those in Control were unwilling to help; am I being too critical or was there more happening that prevented the charter making better progress once the engine change had taken place at Crewe ?

 

Recalling my earlier post, in the bad old days of British Rail, Charter Unit and SLOA/FSS etc. someone always checked that station hydrants actually worked a couple of days before the run!

As stated BR always paid for Taxis for passengers stranded by late running (to my considerable experience), even for journeys from London to the south Coast. Where we herar of delays caused to trains such as this where the problem can be firmly be laid at the door of Network Rail (unless they checked the hydrant within 48 hours of the run and it was working) then poor control enforcing further delays resulting in an arrival 1hr. 55 late then NR should do the same. After all around 1/3rd. of the costs of a Charter go to NR whom, it could be argued, have the least to do and make the greatest profit from rail-tours therefore they should, it could be argued be responsible when their operations cause unreasonable delays preventing people complet6ing their onward journeys.

 

Sadly that has often been the case since well before privatisation. I've been on trips where the charter is ready to go only to be held for a late running local. So not only does the charter get away late, it loses further time following a stopper. It needs someone in Control with the balls to decide in favour of the charter. I did and does still happen but not that often sadly.

 

It seems that the lessons have not been learned from the up run of the "Bristolian" recently when steam traction was able to maintain its path and improve on the times - once given the chance. I know that this occasionally happens on the WCML and IIRC to date no one given the chance has yet caused any delays.

I am reminded of a northvbound run with 6233 when it was scheduled to be looped at Grayrigg in order to let a Cross Country service pass but on the day it was reported as being 25 minutes late whilst 6233 was watering at Carnforth. The decision was taken to offer 6233 a through run to Penrith ( its next stop ) and the train crew accepted with the result that passengers were given a faster run and no train delays ensued; good local initiative all round.

I wonder if such local initiatives are now frowned on and knuckles rapped for any attempts to do so; NR need to understand the publicity value of steam haulage to potential customers because goodwill is so hard to earn but so easy to lose !

 

I wonder if the drought currently being experienced in the north west of England was the reason for the supply being cut off to the hydrants? One also wonders what the statutory requirements are for the maintenance of hydrants?

Regards,

Dan

 

There is a basic right to compensation when trains are delayed by over one hour. I think it is 25% of the fare. TOCs routinely pay this as Rail Vouchers but the value is claimed back from Network Rail if the fault is theirs, ie signal failures. I guess re-pathing probably is covered by this. Rail Tour Opertors act as TOCs so should hit NR and send some joy to their customers...

 

Let's not forget what tends to be called a "Rail Tour Operator" is, in fact, usually a "promotor" - the Operator is the Train Operating Company, i.e. WCRC or DBS for steam on most of the network.

As both operate steam under a charter safety case, I have a suspicion that there is no general "passenger charter" rules that legally apply - indeed, I am not sure that there is even such a general rule for franchised operators.

Steven

 

All TOCs are franchises. Well ok, East Coast is now state run. Passenger Charter applies equally to all. If it's NR's fault then the Operator via the TOC has a case. If the problem is failure of the loco etc., then we must all take the risk as the stock and the technology is now quite ancient.