Steam hauled tours and the fire risk.

I think the driest start to a year in 80 years would be extensively used in any force majeure argument. Even though fire risk problems do occur every few years.

Can't say anymore as I'll be done by the repetition police! (wink)

 

Only if they are not asleep

Any luck with the east European buxom wenches?

 

Err, thanks Ralph, but due to the following post I have more pressing business to attend to!

Not East European, but Bavarian! Like as in Munchen, (Munich), and Southwards.

I know that is East of here, but Eastern Europe is generally felt to start further away.

Oh. Why have I said that. Now everyone will know where these Bavarian beauties wearing their dirndls are, and the competition for them will get even harder.

Anyone not knowing what a dirndl is, or even a Bavarian Serving Wench. Just do a Google image search for "oktoberfest dirndl". (Using moderate search settings I've never found a non work safe image doing that).

Trying to think what relevance the above has to steam loco fire risk. I'll have to come back on that one.

 

Not sure but I bet you have raised a few blood pressures with this "oktoberfest dirndl"

 

Got me so hot just thinking about them that Network Rail have just said I can't travel without a box helping me.

There we are. Back on topic!

PS. I've been done by the speculation police and the repetition police recently. Do we have humour police here as well? LOL! (wink).

 

This is all turning into a complete joke now. Reading green five's post about yesterday's trip & Thursday's 5029 fiasco I think it is time to cancel all steam trips in the south until such time the desert conditions subside. Looking at the forecast there is no prospect of this happening soon. I know the box idea is Notwork Rail's directive & not the tour operators. This would be the best solution for all. If I wanted long hot dry conditions, I would move to the Mediterranean or Australia.


My wonderful lush green Wimbledon lawn:

View attachment 1414

 

There was a rumour going round yesterday about a contingency plan involving 34067, 35028, 70013, 70000 and 6100being outshopped as "Steam Outline" loco's with diesel innards and large speakers being fitted to play sound effects of the steam locos. They will become part of a special summer pool of "Steam" loco's for the South. Arguments saying that they will be diesel loco's were met with replies of "No they are oil fired Steam loco's"............................

 

I don't agree. Here, we're all well-informed about what's going on. And as said elsewhere, the great majority of the paying customers are getting what they want, which is a day out on a steam train with fine dining and comfortable seating. Most (not all) of the fuss is coming from linesiders.

Anyway, just to cheer you up, here's yesterday's steam excursion in the sunny south with absolutely no diesel attached and a non-dubbed soundtrack: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrFrj6kBgak

 

What percentage of a tours' passengers travel dining? Not many I don't think. Most are enthusiasts wanting a nice fast run out with steam. This is confirmed by the No of "window hangers" with goggles, microphones, cameras/videos etc.. Normal Joe public do not do this. To quote "a day out on a steam train" It is more like "a day out on a diesel train pushing a steam engine".

 

The standard formation these days seems to be 5 or 6 First Opens, 2 or 3 with full dining, a kitchen car (sometimes 2), and RMB and one or two TSOs plus staff car and support coach (The Green Train has probably one less First and and extra TSO but remember a couple of the coaches on that set are SOs used as Firsts but with the same body as Mark 2 TSOs). That suggests say 126 dining, 84 or 126 1st non-dining and 98 or 168 standard. That does tend to mean more 1st Class passengers and certainly more income from this source.

This thread reeally just seems to echo past long running threads on diesels attached to steam specials, along with attendent "risk" that the diesel may assist. What I find most amazing is that I would have thought neither the steam loco nor the diesel could have handled the train that set this off - the 5029 Cathedrals Express - without some help from the other.

The fact is that all the threats of legal action against Tour Promotors, indignation at Network Rail rather wanting to avoid lineside fires distrupting other rail traffic aside, the reality is that there are two choices at present - tours run in certain areas diesel assisted or not at all.

Likewise, passengers can either book with knowledge that diesel assistance may be necessary or avoid the trains because of the risk. Stamping you foot and saying "it isn't fair" won't make it rain or anyone accept steam has a right to run and risk causing fires. Equally, the fact that there hasn't been summer fire risk for a few years doesn't mean that it is always a possibility - I am sure the standing risk fire condition instructions are there at Network Rail each year, just as, in reality, the booking terms conditions will cover the situation in some way.

If enough of the passengers won't book due to risk of diesel assistance, then trains won't run and all concerned will earn less income, meaning fewer tour promotors and mainline locos and fewer trains even when it is wet.

Result required? Or what is it that those who are unhappy want?

Steven

 

I'm sorry but I disagree..


lets not kid ourselves here.


If I want a day out in Oxford, Stratford, Cambridge.. substitute any "cathedral" city..
or any southern sea side resort (southampton, weymouth, swanage)..

then I would drive.

if I really wanted a train.. then off to Waterloo I go.

if I want to pay double, have half the amount of time at the destination and no choice about departure times... BUT I wanted a day out to to ride behind steam...

then Steam it is and no complaints I have.

People dont do the above just for a day out.. they do it for a day out by steam.

otherwise why are we bothering with steam locomotives at all ?

If I diesel goes on the front.. then ive basically paid double, have no choice on departure time and chosen half the amount of time at the destination for a ride on "any other train".

 

There seems to be some inconsistency here. 5029's tour last week and 30777's yesterday were diesel assisted, but the pannier to Chinnor yesterday wasn't, the Shakespeare Express today apparently isn't and I'm not sure about today's Torbay Express. So what rules exactly are Network Rail applying? Does it depend on the local "powers that be" at NR?

 

Steam Dreams usually have 4 or 5 coaches of Dining 168 or 210 seats, 2 coaches of First class 84 seats (probabley less since the open 1st is a brake, and 1 compartment in the other is taken by Steam Dreams Staff) and 3 Standard which includes a buffet 172 seats less 4 - 8 seats for Stewards).

 

Really am risking the repetition police in answering this one. Edited the quote down to what I want to reply to.

I accept the need for action when fire risk is very high, as it is now. It makes no sense to run pure steam hauled trains when the risk of them causing lineside fires is very high. That does no one any good.

I've stopped booking all trips now I know what impact the fire risk has, as I personally never want to be on a box trip that has a steam loco on the front for little more than show.

I have one affected trip coming up that was booked before fire risk became an issue. I either lose my money or get a later trip agreed by the Tour Promoter.

Depending on the reaction of the Tour Promoter (above), I will make a decision on when I decide to get a booking for future pure steam trips in the fire risk season. If I find I can change a booking that becomes infested by a box, I'll carry on as now. If not I'll take a chance and either book very late when I know I have a pure steam trip, or even just turn up on the train on the day with no booking and a wad of £10 notes.

And, (here comes the repetition), IMHO, ALL Steam Tour Promoters affected by the current fire risk should make the likely impact clear at the point of booking by their customers. Customers MUST know what they are booking for. Over the cycle of wet and dry summers that should help lead to a pricing policy by Tour Promoters that covers any significant losses they incur in the fire risk season, and ensure their survival as commercial operations. But not in every case I have to agree.

 

Steam only on the Torbay Express today. Fire risk reduced in the Bristol area this afternoon due to heavy rain.

Yippeeee!! <BJ>

 

Very dry in Mid Kent still. No rain for some time now. Mainly blue skies, but with some cloud today. Plus a strong "drying" breeze.

29th July, (as far as I can see), is the next steam trip around Kent. If it is going to be 70013 I'd love to go on it. Have to wait and see what the weather does. And I'm obviously keeping away from any of the trips heading out of Victoria/Waterloo at the present.

We need one of the songs that Carole King wrote on her own, (without Gerry Goffin), to come true!

Yes, it's quiz time. But reckoning on the average age of subscribers here I ain't offering a prize for the correct answers!

 

A tour with the reported diesel assistance provided on 5029 and 30777's trips is not what the majority of passengers on tours want. I feel that trips requiring this much assistance might as well not run however this would raise several other problems from the promoters including late cancellations etc. Promoters in this problem really have a no win situation if a train like that runs or doesn’t. I’m on 46115's trip to Weymouth this coming Friday and if the amount of diesel assistance in going to be extremely high, (which is very likely!), then sadly I hope it is postponed, and if it runs it will be very likely I just wont bother.