60163 Tornado temporarily withdrawn.

Meiningen has never stopped building boilers, it just builds less now than it used to and are more specialist.
Meiningen was building steam accumulator locomotives (fireless 0-6-0's) (over 200 in the 1980's alone, upto around 1988/9) and some are still in use in industry and returned for overhaul there.
Tornado is not the only large boiler they have recently built, 012 100-4 also carries a new boiler, plus they overhauled 61572's boiler in the early 1990s.
They also recently had a new build locomotive.
According to their website, 35 steam locomotives a year are managed for repair/overhaul each year.
I wouldnt question their skill, how many new boilers have been built in the UK between 1980 and today ?

 

So dare I ask, does it now look increasingly unlikely Tornado will make it to the Bluebell at the start of August?

 

Well if you believe the A1ST (which I do) then it's hopeful. But if you believe some of the doom-mongers on this thread then she'll not run until a new boiler and copper firebox are built. But when she was being built there were doom-mongers saying it'll never get finished and it'll never be popular. And how wrong they were. I think it would be most productive if the harmful speculation was to stop and let the people who spent 20 years building it and 2 years running it furnish us with the facts as they see fit.

 

Yes well said Matt, totally agree.

 

Noting the current boiler problems I wonder if this recent report may have been an early indication of problems ?

http://www.nwemail.co.uk/news/train...ngine-steams-along-1.696396?referrerPath=home

The fuel consumption figures quoted certainly sound excessive - Train driver Brian Grierson estimated 10,000 tonnes of coal and 20,000 gallons of water would be used on the trip.

 

Very interesting this one, what about the kings, castles and halls allocated to laira and newton abbott, don,t think the devon banks just go up hill, what goes up must come down somewhere, not forgetting the loco,s that worked up and down the lickey incline.

Bill.

 

Some years ago I came across a comment that it was practice on German railways to leave their locomotives when on depot connected to a hot water system, I doubt this was done when undergoing maintenance and obviously not boiler washout but during day to day operation this would have an affect on the rate of temperature change during steaming cycles. Has anyone out there any information on this German practice, the benefits and dis-benefits, and its affect on boiler longevity.

 

10,000 tonnes of coal for Settle - Carlisle and a bit more distance?

Without fully checking capacities and distances I think that means the train it was pulling would, (a), need to be purely a coal train, and (b), it would set a new record for tonnage hauled by a single UK steam loco!

And as for the prodigious strength of the fireman to shovel that lot. UK, European, World and Olympic Champion!

(wink) and LOL!

 

Thuis is a discuassion forum is it not? I haven't seen any particularly wild speculation or comments. The A1SLT has put out a mumbo jumbo statement about steaming cycles that surely cries out for some discussion, because there is surely no such thing as a standard steaming cycle - there are so many variables to take inot account that the comparison made between the failure rates of BR days and Tornado's is quite meaningless. Moreover it is an interesting topic because it begs the question of whether "steam cycle management" practices ought to ne looked at across the heritage movement to try to reduce wear and tear on boilers.

 

Given that Tornado is a new build and has hit significant problems, though not insurmountable, after just two years, I think it makes the work of those who maintain heritage and mainline steam even more remarkable. All credit to those who manage to keep locos over 80 years old running fast services on the mainline year on year and then making good the repairs to gain a new ticket. Of course not fogetting those who keep even older locos going well on heritage rail.

They just don't build 'em like they used to... runs for cover!

 

So, what would you call this comment from eightpot ?? " I'll hazard a guess that Tornado is going to be out of action for a while, and would not even rule out a return of its boiler to Meiningen for rectification as a possibility. There will be a big-time loss of face all round if the latter has to happen."

I have no idea whether "eightpot" is involved in the restoration/preservation movement. Some on here may well know his background / who he is; but perhaps for the benefit of all he could outline his credentials and this would allow us to consider whether he speaks with some authority, or is simply scaremongering. I find it hard to believe that the A1 ST would be less than upfront on this issue.

 

while you mention the people who built the A1, didn,t tyseley build the frames for the loco, isn,t that where it all started, or have i missed read somethink.

 

You're banging your head against a brick wall here Ralph. If the boiler had been manufactured in the UK I suspect there would be less doom mongering than we have but there are those who always wish to pour scorn on the efforts of others and delight in any subsequent misfortune.

 

Very sadly we have not had the opportunity to see how the other new boiler built by Meiningen Works at the same time as that for the A1 has performed. That for three cylinder pacific 012 100-4. Hardly back into service than the problems between owner, (German Railways Museum), and effective "custodian" The Rendsburger Group meant the loco's use came to an end.

An oil fired pacific, cleared for 140 km/h (87 mph), running on occasions, sitting around doing nothing year after year while it's main line ticket ticks away.

 

Just wondering if the new boiler for 012 100-4 was a new design, or was it built to an existing design ?

 

Tornado has a big boiler (By British standards).

Big boilers with steel fireboxes need treating very carefully with regard to thermal shock, or whatever you want to call it. It is possible to reduce the stresses of thermal shock by taking simple precautions of: warming the boiler and water up nice and slowly, at least 12 hours with a warming fire before making it up and spreading fully across the grate. While operation the loco, keep the pressure as constant as possible with a decent thickness of fire across the grate. Upon disposal, either leave to die with all dampers and doors shut, or clean the fire and leave a small fire under the firehole door, again with all holes shut. If the loco isnt going to be used, stick a chimney cover on, the following morning. And don't even think about draining the boiler until at least 4 full days have passed, to allow slow cooling.

I am sure A1SLT use these proven methods, or similar, when operating their loco's Boiler. And would not dream of raising steam to blowing off from stone cold in 3 hours.

 

I've opened a new thread to allow us to continue chatting about boilers in more general terms.

http://railways.national-preservati...25552-Talking-of-boilers.?p=358599#post358599

 

Well said that man. Nat.Pres strikes again. Even a statement from Mark Allen ( a decent fella), doesn't satisfy.

Here's me, no technical knowledge of a steam locomotive, understood a steam cycle was cold/up to pressure/ cold. How can there be a variation on that?

To the A1 lads:- get on and sort the job out lads and then we can have your magnificent machine out and about again.:smile:

When the loco was being constructed I visited the site and put a donation in the box, just enough to buy a small bolt (pensioner). If it's MY bolt that has broken, fit a new one and send me the bill.
(just to clarify, that's an attempt at humour)