Last Chance Hotel?

But why would local government wish to set up a public inquiry?

 

If people want to help the situation, then asking for a public inquiry isnt helping. Not only is the idea ludicrous, but it seems born out of the idea that there's 'another way' to finding an agreement. Lets be very clear - while the aim of the WHHR remains running regular services to Pont Croesor, their plans will have to be commercially and practically viable and be in the long term, as well as short term interests of the FR.

Their one, and seemingly only proposal was not, so it was turned down. Simple. Their doesnt need to be an inquiry, or for the boards to kiss and make up - what needs to happen is either the WHHR accept that they cant come to an agreement at the moment, and end the PR war about being 'banned' from the WHR etc, or come up with a different proposal perhaps more like the 1998 proposal. IMO, thats the only way forward.

Chris

 

...... or accept the FR's offer which was (IIRC) to run WHHR's vintage stock together with FR vintage stock in timetabled services from Harbour Station, and for occasional WHHR special trans. As stated in the FR Co's most recently published letter this relationship could develop over time.

 

Ok, now that we have heard opposing views, is there any point in this discussion continuing until (and if) the parties involved sit down and thrash out some sort of agreement? As far as I can see, there is a lot of passion regarding this thorny issue and a continued clash in a public forum such as this does neither party any favours IMHO.

 

What is the point of having a debate if those participating cannot express their views freely and at the same time by not insulting others. How many times must this subject be locked because there are simply views that the powers to be don't agree with. The idea of a full public enquiry has never been debated on this site to my kwowledge, this enquiry is in the general publics benefit, those who don't often get the chance to express their opinions. I ask the moderating team to show a little restraint, please.

 

There is no case for a public enquiry! Seems to me to be a private issue between the Boards of the FR and WHHR!

And 'the powers' aren't locking it because they disagree with anyone, they just don't want to make things worse between the FR/WHHR.

Don't blame the moderators because this got out of hand.

 

To an extent you are correct. But, as the behaviour on this thread has not been quite as heated a some previous threads, there is a case for allowing the thread to continue. I'm not sure about the 'powers that be' business - this is just an exchange of views at the moment.

Anyway, you haven't addressed recent questions, particularly why would local government want to consider an expensive inquiry?

 

Hardly 'out of hand'. I cannot see how this debate will affect relations between the FR Co and WHHR. It is just interested parties speculating and debating - isn't it?

 

Lets hope so !

 

Maybe not yet, but it has potential to go south like all the other debates have.

Let just try and not make things worse thats all

 

And can anyone update interested parties here, on the WHHR AGM ?

Have there been any changes? (without getting into speculations as to the results of any such changes....)

 

Why would there be any case for a (very expensive) public enquiry into two businesses trying to reach a commercial agreement? In all such cases there are entrenched positions on either side, coupled with desired objectives. It is up to the businesses involved to decide what changes to make to achieve the objective, and whether they feel the changes outweigh the advantages to be gained.

By all means let us discuss what we would like to see, but let us try and understand the reality of the situation - 'preservation' is no longer just about big boys playing with their toys, and the world is no longer what it was in 1955 when the preservation movement got off the ground. And let us put paranoia aside also - I'm sure that everyone involved wants some sort of agreement for the benefit of all, its just there are fundamental differences on how its to be achieved.

 

Martyn Owen is now Chairman, Chris Boulter is now Vice Chairman, Chris Dearden is still on the Committee, James Hewitt has resigned.

 

These changes were made at the board meeting held on Sunday or subsequently.

 

Hopefully this will herald a new beginning for relations between the two parties, to the benefit of both camps and also those for of us who would like to have the best of both worlds when we visit.

 

It might do, but I've heared that they've also lost two of their most dedicated members of staff in the process.

 

I do hope discussion moves forward as all the railways have something to offer to the others. Thinking about the heritage aspect I expect it will be a few years before it could develop as prince and russell are both out of ticket. Making the assumption that a time arrives when both are restored and issues of pathing, all heritage stock is vac braked and with the same couplings are fitted throughout are met a slightly different but what I think could be a good compromise was thought. Instead of Pont Croesor it would run to Beddgelert maybe passing the service train at Pont Croesor and would run out of the peak summer season. A short heritage rake from the FR would leave harbour, say with prince, cross the cross town link and stop at Pen-y-mount. Here Prince stops at the two platform station and runs forward. Russell and the WHHR part of the rake run forward and couple up. We now have a six coach double headed train. The train sets off stops at Pont Croesor, Nantmoor and Beddgelert. At Beddgelert the biggest concern would be a runnaway but as its doubleheaded. Prince would first run round and water allowing Russell to provide braking and then russell would follow suit with prince providing brake. Train continues back to pen-y-mount where it is split (extra point required I think) and two parts run to each railways terminii)

Anyway this is just one idea. The FR could get in return a place to store a pway train without needing to use the cross town link when based at the porthmadog end of the line and a place to carry out diesel repairs.

Whatever the outcome I hope further discussions go well.

Regards
Duncan

 

Things like that do not work because passengers don't like spending ages sat around in coaches while a train is combined, when it could just as easily depart from Harbour complete.

 

Actually I think that whilst "regular" passengers might not, but as an 'off-season' event, even on a once a week basis, the idea DJH has suggested would provide something unusual to attract visitors, it would certainly be "interesting" to carry out operationally!

In other words "we need to talk".

"We" in this case being ALL the stakeholders (I hate that term normally, but there is a lot at stake here; including the good name of Welsh Narrow Gauge Railways in general) If people are claiming to be open-minded, this should mean being receptive to ideas from others! And some compromise acceptable to all, as in give and take on all sides, must be found.

OK, I'll get off me soapbox, now