Cancelled railtours

I noticed that this weekend both the Torbay Express and Waverley are cancelled supposedly due to lack of bookings - in fact this is the second Torbay Express to be cancelled this summer. I am booked on the Waverley on 29th August and sincerely hope it does run on that day as we are going to Yorkshire for the weekend partly to travel on that train.

It does make one wonder whether the tour operators are struggling to fill these trains that run weekly - filling a train over the same route for 6-8 weeks running is quite a task! I notice that Steam Dreams are managing to fill their trains very well at the moment but that may be because they do not run regularly to same destination or when they do it is often by a different route.

I note that UK Railtours claim that they never cancel a tour due to lack of bookings but then again all their tours seem to be "one-offs" so are more likely to be filled. What is the policy of other operators on this - and what constitutes "lack of bookings" - does the train have to be 70% booked, or 50% or what?

 

I was told on Saturday that other runs of The Waverley are filling well and RTC can't understand why yesterday's didn't fill.

 

If I remember rightly, The Fellsman series are all fully booked for the rest of the summer, so it seems to depend on route - and possibly start and finish times.

Steven

 

IIRC, the Fellsman is part of some package tour itineraries and so is tapping into a slightly different market from most tour operators. It can be good business, as the MHR and others have found.

 

Loading on repeats intineries can vary quite a bit without obvious cause or reason in my opinion, i've seen Shakespeares for example where 4 coaches was being generous, but yesturdays was fairly packed, no obvious reason for the difference.

 

Last year seemed to be a bumper year. Staycationers seemed to swell numbers. That said, to Joe Public, once they have done it got the tee-shirt well thats it for that route. Do we have fewer staycationers or is the economy biting this year? Hard to say.

 

I believe the Waverly 29Aug has booked ok

In the S.W. anecdotal evidence in the tourist trade points to strong May/June but some worrying July revenues with lower footfall/spend+traffic!!!

Local trains at Dawlish are loading v well,generally for short (cheap) journeys.

The regular Weymouth steam trains ARE loading very well+the poor Waverly load last sunday is a puzzle. Sometimes there is no clear reason but,yes, many a Finance Director,incl myself, will rest easier once the vital summer period has proved successful. The rumour mill suggests several probs but our hobby is Ace at meeting challenges.

Please support tours+preseved railways this year. Maybe try to minimise criticism as well so we can all enjoy our hobby rather than.......!!!!! RAY MASON

 

Reassuring to hear the remaining Waverleys are booking well - and I've just booked myself on a Weymouth run too!

 

Waverley cancelled on August 1st. It was Yorkshire Day - not much spending going on ! :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::flee:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

 

Tee hee!

 

The Shakespeares get quite a few bookings from coach tour operators who drop off their passengers at Snow Hill and pick them up again at Stratford which probably explains why sometimes standard is pretty full.
It's worth noting that all Sunday Lunch dining is now sold out for the rest of the season (trains B & C) so there is still money around at the top end of the market.
And as I've mentioned elsewhere, on VT's other tours dining nearly always sells faster than standard class.

 

One can't complain about that, as Premier dining and First class are effectively subsidising our favourite pastime... Mind you, I've always had the impression that 'Repeat Itinerary' trips are a double-edged sword. They might be slightly easier for Network Rail to manage from an operational point of view, but this doesn't guarantee 'bums on seats', something I think Past-Time Rail were probably finding out during the last few seasons of their incarnation of the 'Torbay Express', and possibly something TBEL are finding out for themselves. It certainly seemed at the time that PTR were pushing it a bit too much (I remember it being stupidly cheap at around £47), and the references to it featuring on Coast had worn a bit thin.

One-offs tend to guarantee enthusiast support, but they also depend on those paying extra for First and Premier classes. In this respect, 'sensible' timing is required to have any chance of attracting non-enthusiast support, thus limiting the options for an ambitious 'dawn patrol' trip. It is therefore a fine balancing act between flogging the market and providing unique interest, something that Railway Touring Company and Steam Dreams have done quite well over the last few years, whilst UK Railtours do not currently regard steam as their 'bread and butter', meaning that they can afford to push the boat out.

 

mmmmm, 7.20 departures from Waterloo anyone

 

One of the reasons the Torbays aren't selling as well is the price. Like Bulleid Pacific says, it used to be £47 or something daft. Up to April last year, it was £55 standard. TBEL took over and immediately put the price up to £65. This year it is £75. £20 in less than a year? Not surprising it's not selling!

It's a repeat operation tour. There are no stock movements, except at the start and end of the season. The hire fees for the locos used to be reduced from what they would charge for one-off tours, as they didn't have any movement costs either. The King people used to enjoy it, nice easy day out, and they got into a routine with looking after the loco at Barton Hill.

In my opinion, putting dining on was a mistake. It should just be a day out for families to the seaside, with fares to suit families. By putting the dining in, you have to reduce the number of passenger coaches by one to allow for the kitchen car. This in turn puts up all the other fares.

 

Im very glad I did the Torbays last year as the price hike is unbelievable. The price is very similar to one off trips which have diesel legs and stock movements, not a repeat schedule operation which is all steam.

 

If it's a day in / out operation with the same stock and locomotive with no stock moves..why not merge the BSK and the Support coach roles into 1 coach in the same set..it adds an extra coach to the train, even if you need to reserve a compartment for the crew, you dont need two brakes on a train and the brake section of the BSK can hold all the "stuff".

Doesnt Tyseley do this already ?

In Europe support coaches tend only to travel with the locomotive light engine and are stored in sidings whilst the train is running. (I think Support coaches are a uniquely UK thing when it comes to adding it to the train when running).

 

I suspect the Torbays have more overheads than most repeat itineries, promoters like WCRC or VT for example, have thing like loco's, stock, crew etc already in house whereas pretty much everything for the Torbays has to be hired in.

 

True, but the price is similar to a lot of Railway Touring Company one off tours who also have these overheads. Repetition is supposed to cut down on these costs.

 

Could the price rise be due to the bookings honoured last year when Past Time Rail collapsed? I would have thought that would have been a significant amount of income lost which could explain the increase in price this season.

I agree that the price of the Torbays is very high for a repeat itinerary which has certainly put me off even if the Duke has done a few trips.

 

Most certainly. Especially with 35028, (please come back soon), 34067 and or 34046.

That, at present, is the decent Saturday pathway down the direct mainline route to Salisbury and Bournemouth etc. (Well, 07.17 in fact).

But I wonder how many of the punters who buy the big tickets to sit in style and be fed and watered all day appreciate, or even know that.

I'd personally pay a lot more than standard price to get a (guaranteed?), fast timing to Salisbury or Southampton with a Bulleid using that pathway. And so would maybe 20 or so others.............. But 20 doesn't pay for a steam tour to run.