Llangollen Railway - Pentrefelin field.

Just to warn any photographers visiting the line that the field from which so many fine photos & videos of trains approaching the Dee bridge have been taken has been sold.
The occupation crossing leading to it is effectively closed, as the gate on the field side of the line is padlocked shut & has barbed wire on top of it. There is also a large 'Trespassers will be prosecuted' sign planted in the field.
The railway's S & T dept. is also fencing off the small parking area at the bottom of this lane.
Visitors are welcome to drive through to the carriage works & park there while taking photos - of course taking care to check that no shunting moves are taking place on the carriage works access track.

Bob.

 

This is a shame but I suppose it was bound to happen! Is the field going to be developed for housing or industrial use and does anybody know of an alternative to the field for photos of the Dee Bridge?

Regards

 

I will br suprised if they manage to get planning permission, secondly the railway would know as there is only one access point unless you can swim. I suspect it is some who has the money to demonstrate to their fellow humans how much the love them!

 

I had posted news of this earlier this year when I visited the line; my understanding was that some yobs ( not rail enthusiasts ) had been defiling the field in some way leading to the farmer banning access to everyone. If the land is / has been sold can the new owner be contacted to see what access can be retained for railway photographers - or is it already obvious that a policy of non-access will continue to apply ?

 

Ken, you're the herbert to ask here, do you know of an alternative spot for taking piccies of the bridge?

Regards

 

Wading into the River Dee is pretty much your only option now. Wonder what the canoeists are going to do!

 

On a legal technicality I wonder if the land can be blocked off ?

I have been visiting Llangollen since 1990 and have understood the path was used by the public as a right of way to the river bank - especially by canoeists to launch their craft anf by locals to exercise their dogs. It is my understanding that if a right of access is exercised for 12 years without either restriction or interference it becomes a de facto public right of way - and can only be closed through legal action of the land-owner to deny it.
IMHO the right of way has been established through unfettered and unrestricted usage and the local council now has the right to insist it remains that way by legally declaring it to be a public right of way - and can even argue this against the new owner and his restrictions.

 

The field has been bought by the people who own the hotel across the river. They hope to use it as a campsite for canoeists etc. As the existing access road down to the crossing is very steep it is not suitable for caravans,so the crossing is now basically not required & can probably be removed.There is another possible access to the field by means of a narrow roadway at the end of the houses on Abbey Road, which finishes at a gate next to the track adjacent to Goods Junction, but I can't see the railway allowing a crossing to be built there due to poor visibility & its close proximity to Goods Junction.It is possible to get good shots of this stretch if you go into the carriage works & there is a brake van handily placed to take photos from.

Bob.

 

A bit of Googling has come up with this.

"Apart from the cases where a new right of way has been specifically created, for example, by means of a public path creation order under the Highways Act 1980 or through an Inclosure Award, ways become public rights of way through dedication of the right to the public by the landowner. In a few cases, the dedication is express— the landowner consciously and deliberately makes a way a public right of way. But in the great majority of cases the dedication is presumed from evidence of the use of the way made by the public, of the actions, or inactions, of the landowner during the relevant period, and of historical documents.

Presumed dedication

a) under section 31 of the highways act 1980
To establish that a way has become a right of way by means of presumed dedication it is necessary to show firstly that there has been uninterrupted use by the public (not necessarily the same people all the time) over a period of 20 years in the belief that that use was as of right. Deciding who 'the public' are can sometimes be difficult and may depend on the facts of the case. But in general it should be people other than those working for the landowner concerned, and the belief that use was as of right excludes use which was known to be with the permission or licence of the landowner. The period of 20 years is counted back from the date on which the public's right was first brought into question, for example through the erection of a fence or locking of a gate across the way, however long ago that date was. Evidence of use, or of interruptions of use, since that date is not relevant to the existence of the right of way at the date it was interrupted.

b) at common law
Dedication may also be presumed to have taken place at Common Law; again use must be made as of right, by the public, but the period of use is not fixed and, depending on the facts, can range from a few years to several decades. The burden of proof is on the person claiming the right to show that the owner of the land intended to dedicate a public right of way.
Documentary evidence

Documentary evidence from, or before, the relevant period is also important in helping to decide the question whether public rights exist. Such evidence can, for example, be old maps, estate documents or records such as tithe maps or Inclosure Awards. The local record office may be able to tell you which documents it has that may be relevant to a particular way. Some documentary evidence may be sufficient on its own to establish the existence of public rights and, however old the document, the rights will still exist unless there is evidence of a subsequent legally authorised change.
No intention to dedicate

Although 20 years' uninterrupted use by the public establishes a presumption that the way has been dedicated to the public, the presumption can be contradicted by evidence showing that there was no intention to dedicate on the part of the landowner at the time. This could be evidence of an interruption of the public's use of the way, but such an interruption would have to be shown to have been both effective in preventing public use and clearly known to the public using the way. Alternatively, notices clearly displayed on the way, indicating that it was private, or plans deposited with the surveying authority or its predecessors can provide sufficient evidence of an intention not to dedicate. Reports from people who can give evidence that a way was private and that no public right of way existed during the relevant period can also be of importance."

 

Sorry, you missed my point. Some people will pay good money to prevent other people having access for no over point than the satisfaction that they have done so.

On a later point there is also the more recent "Village Green" law, clearly the field has been used for this purpose for years. And the subject of 20 years I suspect we have good photo documentation to back this up between us.

However maybe some one on behalf of us and the railway should ask the owner if they would mind allowing access on event weekends, they worst they can say is no.